Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
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23-06-2013, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2013 08:38 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 08:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-06-2013 02:53 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Have a look at this: http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/INF...E_1018.htm

Synthetic alpha tocopherol (Vitamin E) shown to increase cancer risk - a large scale government funded study designed to fail from the outset.

It doesn't paint a pretty picture for supplements... I wonder why studies like this are funded?

If they had studied Gamma Tocopherol - the good vitamin E the results would be very different.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11121464

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15753180

This is why it's important to do your research and take the right high quality supplements.

Without double-blind human trials, I ain't takin' any of this.

Seriously, you're going to ingest stuff of unknown quality, in uncontrolled doses, of unconfirmed efficacy, with unsupported claims, ...

This is woo. Drinking Beverage

Have you tried the faith healer or shaman yet? Consider

What are you actually referring to as woo?

The stuff on pubmed is woo?

If you want to avoid gamma tocopherol then you best avoid any food with vitamin e in it. Gamma tocopherol is natural vitamin e.

lol Rolleyes

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23-06-2013, 08:35 AM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 08:31 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(23-06-2013 08:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  Without double-blind human trials, I ain't takin' any of this.

Seriously, you're going to ingest stuff of unknown quality, in uncontrolled doses, of unconfirmed efficacy, with unsupported claims, ...

This is woo. Drinking Beverage

Have you tried the faith healer or shaman yet? Consider

What are you actually referring to as woo?

The stuff on pubmed is woo?

Sorry, this reply was not directly to that post. My bad.

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23-06-2013, 08:49 AM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2013 11:38 AM by DeepThought.)
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 08:20 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You know what they call alternative medicine once it is proven to work? MEDICINE! These supplements are just the 21st century version of snake oil.

Was that directed at me or Chas?

I agree, and I never made any claims about curing a medical condition... so... ???

Nice use of a canned Tim Minchin quote!

Edit:
There is plenty of evidence that lots of supplements are not snake oil.

Plenty out there are... Here is a great example of snake oil!
http://www.forcefactor.com/products/factor_2

Whey Protein is a solid example of a supplement that isn't snake oil. It's an easily digestible, cheap, and healthy protein source that could be used instead of eating meat. Useful if you do allot of high intensity exercise and need ~120+ grams protein a day.

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23-06-2013, 09:21 AM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
Recently I've stopped taking vitamin supplements and am now drinking a smoothie for breakfast every day - an experiment - as a dietary supplement.

http://www.smoothieking.com/health/

http://livebetteramerica.aol.com/2013/03...61572.html

http://www.fitnessmagazine.com/recipes/d...e-recipes/

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/nutri...e-lettuce/

http://foodsforlonglife.blogspot.com/201...egans.html

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green...unhealthy/

Bananas, strawberries, blueberries, mango, apples, celery, carrots, pumpkin, alfa sprouts, kale, parsley, cilantro, flax seeds, romaine lettuce, spinach, cucumbers, etc. in different combinations served cold...drinking one now.

All natural, no man made products, inexpensive, delivers most if not all the daily vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, Omega-3, non-processed sugars, natural fats the body requires. The rest of the day I eat what I have always eaten, I'm not ready to be a vegan.

Studies show cancer risk reductions,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

http://www.tcolincampbell.org/ The China Study

http://www.nealbarnard.org/

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Rese...tion-Study

I think this is a better alternative than vitamins manufactured in non regulated FDA shops (FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. )

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/

http://www.uspharmacist.com/content/d/co...t/c/11002/

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23-06-2013, 09:32 AM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 08:49 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(23-06-2013 08:20 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You know what they call alternative medicine once it is proven to work? MEDICINE! These supplements are just the 21st century version of snake oil.

Was that directed at me or Chas?

I agree, and I never made any claims about curing a medical condition... so... ???

Nice use of a canned Tim Minchin quote!

It was an addendum to Chas' response. As for the canned response it is apt. Until 2 bottles of the same brand of supplements can be shown to have the same ingredients in the same amounts (which most of them do not) they are not real medicine. Most of the supplement industry is based off of woo and a vague holistic pseudoscience "Natural" philosophy and has never been fully tested. Thus Snake Oil.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-06-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 09:21 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Recently I've stopped taking vitamin supplements and am now drinking a smoothie for breakfast every day - an experiment - as a dietary supplement.

http://www.smoothieking.com/health/

http://livebetteramerica.aol.com/2013/03...61572.html

http://www.fitnessmagazine.com/recipes/d...e-recipes/

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/nutri...e-lettuce/

http://foodsforlonglife.blogspot.com/201...egans.html

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green...unhealthy/

Bananas, strawberries, blueberries, mango, apples, celery, carrots, pumpkin, alfa sprouts, kale, parsley, cilantro, flax seeds, romaine lettuce, spinach, cucumbers, etc. in different combinations served cold...drinking one now.

All natural, no man made products, inexpensive, delivers most if not all the daily vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, Omega-3, non-processed sugars, natural fats the body requires. The rest of the day I eat what I have always eaten, I'm not ready to be a vegan.

Studies show cancer risk reductions,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

http://www.tcolincampbell.org/ The China Study

http://www.nealbarnard.org/

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Rese...tion-Study

I think this is a better alternative than vitamins manufactured in non regulated FDA shops (FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. )

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/

http://www.uspharmacist.com/content/d/co...t/c/11002/

This is kinda where my thinking is. I just can't help thinking that naturally sourced vitamins are better.

That being said, I must admit DT has provided some pretty compelling stuff. I'm still reading some of the info that's been provided by DT and others. I'll be sticking with food as my source of nutrients for now, but I'll also keep on reading what you guys post and do my best to stay open to the alternatives.

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23-06-2013, 03:42 PM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2013 04:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 09:40 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  This is kinda where my thinking is. I just can't help thinking that naturally sourced vitamins are better.

Sometimes you just can't get an effective dose without extracting and processing it. I take a gram of resveratrol/day to help control my sugars. A typical bottle of red wine might have 20 mg so that's like 50 bottles/day. And sometimes the bioavailability just ain't very high unless you process it, like the curcumin in tumeric.

(23-06-2013 08:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  Without double-blind human trials, I ain't takin' any of this.

I am less risk-averse and cautious than you. As long as they got plausible mechanisms of action, with in vitro and in vivo (even if it's just in fatass genetically engineered diabetic mice) support, I'll give it a run. If you got a plausible MOA, it ain't woo. That's pretty much the definition of the difference between woo and not woo.

(23-06-2013 09:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Until 2 bottles of the same brand of supplements can be shown to have the same ingredients in the same amounts (which most of them do not) they are not real medicine.

Dude I source my resveratrol and curcumin from's got independent Certificate of Analysis on every batch he produces.
Does that increase the cost? Of course, but at least I know exactly what I'm taking. Hell, NIH even funded a study using dude's resveratrol as the source.

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23-06-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 03:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-06-2013 09:40 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  This is kinda where my thinking is. I just can't help thinking that naturally sourced vitamins are better.

Sometimes you just can't get an effective dose without extracting and processing it. I take a gram of resveratrol/day to help control my sugars. A typical bottle of red wine might have 20 mg so that's like 50 bottles/day. And sometimes the bioavailability just ain't very high unless you process it, like the curcumin in tumeric.

(23-06-2013 08:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  Without double-blind human trials, I ain't takin' any of this.

I am less risk-averse and cautious than you. As long as they got plausible mechanisms of action, with in vitro and in vivo (even if it's just in fatass genetically engineered diabetic mice) support, I'll give it a run. If you got a plausible MOA, it ain't woo. That's pretty much the definition of the difference between woo and not woo.

(23-06-2013 09:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Until 2 bottles of the same brand of supplements can be shown to have the same ingredients in the same amounts (which most of them do not) they are not real medicine.

Dude I source my resveratrol and curcumin from's got independent Certificate of Analysis on every batch he produces.
Does that increase the cost? Of course, but at least I know exactly what I'm taking. Hell, NIH even funded a study using dude's resveratrol as the source.

Well you're doin' it right then. Most people however just buy over the counter Brand X supplements with no thought as to whats actually in them or how they are produced.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-06-2013, 04:45 PM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
(23-06-2013 09:40 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(23-06-2013 09:21 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Recently I've stopped taking vitamin supplements and am now drinking a smoothie for breakfast every day - an experiment - as a dietary supplement.

http://www.smoothieking.com/health/

http://livebetteramerica.aol.com/2013/03...61572.html

http://www.fitnessmagazine.com/recipes/d...e-recipes/

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/nutri...e-lettuce/

http://foodsforlonglife.blogspot.com/201...egans.html

http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/green...unhealthy/

Bananas, strawberries, blueberries, mango, apples, celery, carrots, pumpkin, alfa sprouts, kale, parsley, cilantro, flax seeds, romaine lettuce, spinach, cucumbers, etc. in different combinations served cold...drinking one now.

All natural, no man made products, inexpensive, delivers most if not all the daily vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, Omega-3, non-processed sugars, natural fats the body requires. The rest of the day I eat what I have always eaten, I'm not ready to be a vegan.

Studies show cancer risk reductions,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

http://www.tcolincampbell.org/ The China Study

http://www.nealbarnard.org/

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Rese...tion-Study

I think this is a better alternative than vitamins manufactured in non regulated FDA shops (FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market. )

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/

http://www.uspharmacist.com/content/d/co...t/c/11002/

This is kinda where my thinking is. I just can't help thinking that naturally sourced vitamins are better.

That being said, I must admit DT has provided some pretty compelling stuff. I'm still reading some of the info that's been provided by DT and others. I'll be sticking with food as my source of nutrients for now, but I'll also keep on reading what you guys post and do my best to stay open to the alternatives.

If you have the time read the China Study co-authored by Oxford, it makes a compelling argument.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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15-07-2013, 05:06 AM
RE: Do you take vitamins and other supplements?
I always try to eat healthy and fulfill all needs of nutrients from food. But sometimes it is not possible. So I take calcium and vitamin B complex.

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