Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
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25-01-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 09:25 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You forgot "fear of death and the unknown".

That's a powerful one, too. I guess it depends on how you split your categories as to whether it's its own category, or if it applies to the others. It certainly works as a great tie-in to any God of the Gaps approach and could be employed as a spring board into cons.
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25-01-2016, 01:11 PM
Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(24-01-2016 01:33 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Answering the OP.
Yes it is about power and wealth. Always was, always will be.

I read online that Emporer Constantine made Christianity for political purposes.

So the men could be masters of the universe.
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25-01-2016, 02:14 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(24-01-2016 10:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(24-01-2016 03:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Really?
Does "the synagogue" keep a record of moneys given to the needy?

Nobody monitors anyone else to make sure that a Jew is fulfilling their charity obligations. That's just not how Judaism works. I have never been asked who I support, or how much I provide. I would consider it to be a gross invasion of privacy if someone felt that they were entitled to know. I have no idea if my neighbors are actually giving the full amount to charity or not. It's none of my business. It's really never discussed. We know what we're supposed to do, and that's it. We either do it, or we don't.

As far as giving money to the synagogue and then having the synagogue distribute funds to people in need, I have never seen anything like this happen. A synagogue's primary job is not to support the needy; it's to provide a service to the community. Community members utilize and pay for those services much like any other business. There is a board of directors made up of community members who set the budget, determine membership dues and ensure that expenses stay on track. If there is a surplus in funds from one year, I would expect that those funds will be used the next year and not handed out to community members as charity.

(24-01-2016 03:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Do "people in need" include atheists, Christians and Muslims?

“People in need” refers to all humans. I would imagine that most charity money is given to professionally run charities, but people are also known to hand cash directly over to people in need. As far as charity handouts go, Jewish charities service all people regardless of religion, and this can be verified by viewing policies that are published on the charity's website.

(24-01-2016 03:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What funds are sent to the synagogue by the typical Jew?

Pulling mainly from my own personal experience, I’ve typically seen membership fees that are around $500 USD/year for a single, and around $1,500 USD/year for a family. Rates are determined by the shul’s expenses, so if the community likes a posh building with lots of services, then that will be reflected in the price.

I think it's worth noting (because this tends to be a point of contention that the Jewish community deals with from Christians), it is not compulsory to pay the fee to attend regular services, though we’ve seen through practice that most people will pay the fee. High Holiday services do require a fee for non-members because the synagogue has incurred extra expenses in anticipation of the higher turnout. In contrast to this, Chabad houses tend to free or very low cost and are prepared to accommodate drop-ins.

Just to give you an example of how Jewish charity is structured… let’s suppose a family has a household income of $100,000 USD/year.

Off the bat, $10,000 is earmarked for charity. Of this only $1,500 goes to the synagogue membership to cover operating expenses. This leaves $8,500 to be given to any individual, charity or cause that the family deems appropriate, and broken up in any way that they decide. Food and blankets may be purchased and handed out directly to people in need. A person might decide that a poor family’s child should have a better education, so they cover tuition. Someone may believe that a part of this money should go to cover animal welfare programs. -Or the money may be given directly to an individual or to a charity that provides health, human, or educational services.

(24-01-2016 03:49 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  These are genuine questions I would like to hear answers to.

What I have described above is how I have been taught to handle charity. While I’m the furthest thing from a proper Rabbi, I hope I’ve been able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. Smile

Edit: Reorganized and trimmed down for clarity.

Interesting. Thanks.

One wonders why Jews in general are not known for their charity?

Is it written in their holy books they should give about 10% to charity?
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25-01-2016, 02:40 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2016 02:44 PM by Banjo.)
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 01:11 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  
(24-01-2016 01:33 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Answering the OP.
Yes it is about power and wealth. Always was, always will be.

I read online that Emporer Constantine made Christianity for political purposes.

So the men could be masters of the universe.

xianity already existed before Constantine. Diocletian persecuted them. So we know they existed. However their numbers were very few. Diocletian saw xianity as weak and could bring down the empire.

The persecution was politically motivated because all religions were free in Rome. What caused suspicion was that they met in secret. Nobody really knew what they were doing. This can be seen in Pliny's letter to Trajan and Trajan's response.

Constantine in his attempt to become sole emperor needed allies. He turned to various sects, one of which was xian. A deal was made. They would support him as long as he supported them. Constantine never invented the religion that existed before he did.

He was also influenced by his mother who had become xian. He had a cross painted on the shields of his soldiers at the battle of the Milvian bridge. It so happens his army was victorious and xianity became his favoured religion. Though it is not known if Constantine was xian. He was simply a political opportunist.

The soldiers of Rome worshipped Mithra, who acted as the god and protector of the army. The story of Mithra was mixed in with the story of Christ and eventually many soldiers converted and the religion through the army made its way through the empire at large.

Rome ended up being xian for over 1000 years. Far longer than it was pagan.

I could go on but prefer brevity.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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25-01-2016, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2016 03:56 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 02:14 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(24-01-2016 10:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Nobody monitors anyone else to make sure that a Jew is fulfilling their charity obligations. That's just not how Judaism works. I have never been asked who I support, or how much I provide. I would consider it to be a gross invasion of privacy if someone felt that they were entitled to know. I have no idea if my neighbors are actually giving the full amount to charity or not. It's none of my business. It's really never discussed. We know what we're supposed to do, and that's it. We either do it, or we don't.

As far as giving money to the synagogue and then having the synagogue distribute funds to people in need, I have never seen anything like this happen. A synagogue's primary job is not to support the needy; it's to provide a service to the community. Community members utilize and pay for those services much like any other business. There is a board of directors made up of community members who set the budget, determine membership dues and ensure that expenses stay on track. If there is a surplus in funds from one year, I would expect that those funds will be used the next year and not handed out to community members as charity.


“People in need” refers to all humans. I would imagine that most charity money is given to professionally run charities, but people are also known to hand cash directly over to people in need. As far as charity handouts go, Jewish charities service all people regardless of religion, and this can be verified by viewing policies that are published on the charity's website.


Pulling mainly from my own personal experience, I’ve typically seen membership fees that are around $500 USD/year for a single, and around $1,500 USD/year for a family. Rates are determined by the shul’s expenses, so if the community likes a posh building with lots of services, then that will be reflected in the price.

I think it's worth noting (because this tends to be a point of contention that the Jewish community deals with from Christians), it is not compulsory to pay the fee to attend regular services, though we’ve seen through practice that most people will pay the fee. High Holiday services do require a fee for non-members because the synagogue has incurred extra expenses in anticipation of the higher turnout. In contrast to this, Chabad houses tend to free or very low cost and are prepared to accommodate drop-ins.

Just to give you an example of how Jewish charity is structured… let’s suppose a family has a household income of $100,000 USD/year.

Off the bat, $10,000 is earmarked for charity. Of this only $1,500 goes to the synagogue membership to cover operating expenses. This leaves $8,500 to be given to any individual, charity or cause that the family deems appropriate, and broken up in any way that they decide. Food and blankets may be purchased and handed out directly to people in need. A person might decide that a poor family’s child should have a better education, so they cover tuition. Someone may believe that a part of this money should go to cover animal welfare programs. -Or the money may be given directly to an individual or to a charity that provides health, human, or educational services.


What I have described above is how I have been taught to handle charity. While I’m the furthest thing from a proper Rabbi, I hope I’ve been able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. Smile

Edit: Reorganized and trimmed down for clarity.

Interesting. Thanks.

One wonders why Jews in general are not known for their charity?

We are absolutely known for our charity. Smile We're also known as a whole for being a self-sustained community that contributes more than we utilize in resources. We make up less than 1/2 of 1% of the world's population and generate WAY more than our fair share to social service programs.

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(25-01-2016 02:14 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Is it written in their holy books they should give about 10% to charity?

I believe it's the Talmud that details minimum and maximum amounts for charity. 10% is the minimum, and the expected amount. If a person is very wealthy, they may give up to a 20% maximum of income. It is against Jewish law to give more than this amount.
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25-01-2016, 03:42 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(24-01-2016 01:30 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-01-2016 12:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'd be willing to bet that a big reason why many poor people stay poor is that they give generously to their church of choice.

lol, do you constantly pull shit out your ass?

Do poor people give a significant percentage of their income to churches?
The churches often demand 10%, many do a shaming if people don't give.

Poor people need their money, they can't afford to give up 10%. They need to save for their future.

I can only imagine how poor I would be if I had to give up 10% of my earnings every year. Then calculate the extra compound interest on Morgage that I would have had to pay.
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25-01-2016, 06:52 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:14 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Interesting. Thanks.

One wonders why Jews in general are not known for their charity?

We are absolutely known for our charity. Smile We're also known as a whole for being a self-sustained community that contributes more than we utilize in resources. We make up less than 1/2 of 1% of the world's population and generate WAY more than our fair share to social service programs.

26 Billion Bucks

JTA Survey

(25-01-2016 02:14 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Is it written in their holy books they should give about 10% to charity?

I believe it's the Talmud that details minimum and maximum amounts for charity. 10% is the minimum, and the expected amount. If a person is very wealthy, they may give up to a 20% maximum of income. It is against Jewish law to give more than this amount.

Interesting. Thanks.

I guess the Jews do owe the rest of the world a few favours for giving us Christianity and Islam. Big Grin Imagine what a nice place our world would be without those two.Tongue
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25-01-2016, 07:19 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 06:52 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  We are absolutely known for our charity. Smile We're also known as a whole for being a self-sustained community that contributes more than we utilize in resources. We make up less than 1/2 of 1% of the world's population and generate WAY more than our fair share to social service programs.

26 Billion Bucks

JTA Survey


I believe it's the Talmud that details minimum and maximum amounts for charity. 10% is the minimum, and the expected amount. If a person is very wealthy, they may give up to a 20% maximum of income. It is against Jewish law to give more than this amount.

Interesting. Thanks.

I guess the Jews do owe the rest of the world a few favours for giving us Christianity and Islam. Big Grin Imagine what a nice place our world would be without those two.Tongue

That's gonna leave a mark. Frozen peas on the eye, Aliza. Should be fine in a day or two. Oh, and bravo, Doc Fulton. Thumbsup

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-01-2016, 07:22 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I believe it's the Talmud that details minimum and maximum amounts for charity. 10% is the minimum, and the expected amount. If a person is very wealthy, they may give up to a 20% maximum of income. It is against Jewish law to give more than this amount.

Why is that? Is it so you don't confuse charity for piety?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-01-2016, 09:07 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(25-01-2016 07:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 03:29 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I believe it's the Talmud that details minimum and maximum amounts for charity. 10% is the minimum, and the expected amount. If a person is very wealthy, they may give up to a 20% maximum of income. It is against Jewish law to give more than this amount.

Why is that? Is it so you don't confuse charity for piety?

Piety is irrelevant. If a person gives $100 to a food bank with good intentions, those intentions are cute and fuzzy.... and irrelevant. We don't care about that. $100 feeds hungry people, and "a good spirit" never enters the equation.

$10 from someone who "has good intentions" feeds fewer people than someone who gives $1,000, but does it out of social obligation and not "of a pure heart."

The cap on charity serves two purposes.

1. This cap aims to curtail opportunities for fundamentalism. There was a problem of people giving all their money away in an effort to be like goodie two shoes in the community.
(Don't worry! We've found other ways to be fundamentalists!)

2. We each have an obligation to be as self-sufficient as possible. If we're giving all of our money away in some misguided effort to be charitable, then we can cause our families to suffer. Maybe our kids need that specialized education and their chances of success can be improved, or perhaps we need to have enough money in the bank to help us through the future loss of employment.

Poverty is not a Jewish virtue. We aim to crush it, not cause ourselves to be dependent on the system. Don't give more than 10% if you're a normal Joe. Don't give more than 20% if you're loaded. It's your money, and it's intended for your use.
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