Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
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26-01-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(26-01-2016 03:50 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 03:32 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  You could take it back along with followers of these faiths Smile.

Yep.

Imagine a world with no Judaism, no Christianity and no Islam.

Take it one step further...no countries and no racism.

Then get rid of the other toxic big corporations... for eg. no macdonalds, no kfc.

Then make advertising illegal.

Then eliminate illegal drug usage.

What a wonderful world that would be!




For some reason this video doesn't start the song till 1 minute in --ish.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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26-01-2016, 06:14 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(26-01-2016 09:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You based this on what, some headline you read in news? Do you know anyone personally who was shamed for not contributing 10%?
I don't tend to talk to my aquantances regarding the money that they give to their church. People wouldn't take kindly to my prying into their personal financial affairs.
So my main source of information is tabloid headlines and articles.
(26-01-2016 09:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Whats ironic about individuals such as yourself and many other atheists, who speak so strongly in support of evidence and rationalism, routinely pass off easily debunkable BS. Rather than taking two seconds to verify if your purely antidotal claims are supported by the data, you chose the lazy mans route and prefer to pass along whatever anti-religious prejudices caught your fancy hoping no one calls you out on it.
OK, here are some articles. If you are denying that tithes, first fruit, seed money etc aren't a feature of many Christian orgainsations then please feel free to refute.
If you are denying that these have no impact on the poor then also please feel free to refute.

BTW - I'm not interested in your interpretation of what the Bible says. I'm only interested in what churches actually do.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/articl...d=10630407
Destiny Church demands more than tithe, former members say
Quote:Former Destiny Taranaki member Randolph Pratt said members came under pressure to contribute to the fundraising drives above their 10 per cent tithe.

"There's a lot of people in Destiny Church in low-income families," he said.

"How can they afford to give that sort of money?"

http://www.tfh.org/tithe
Quote:The foundation and essence of the Christian life is to follow Jesus with all that we are and hold nothing back. To be a disciple means that my financial life will be inseparably connected to my worship. To be a lover of God is to be a giver; to be filled with the Spirit is to be filled with the very essence of our generous God. In other words, when we get saved our wallets must be converted as well!

http://www.tithing.com/blog/pastor-posts...tin-board/
Quote:A pastor posted a list of the Church members who were not tithers.

http://madamenoire.com/547607/church-sen...id-tithes/
Church Sends Woman Collection Notice For Unpaid Tithes
Quote:Candace Peterson was shocked when she received a collection notice from the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church stating that she will be required to pay $1,000 per year in donations or she won’t be considered a member of the congregation
Quote:To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Peterson.


http://www.themonastery.org/blog/2015/08...t-tithing/
Woman Banned From Church for Not Tithing
Quote:You may have heard in the news recently about a woman named Josephine King who has been banned from her church because she was not tithing regularly. The 92-year-old woman was informed through a written notice that because she was not contributing to the church properly financially or physically, she was not allowed to attend church at African Baptist Church in Bainbridge, Georgia anymore.


http://progressivechristianity.org/resou...-of-shame/
Churches Teaching the Doctrine of Shame
Quote:Many churches teach the doctrine of shame without really knowing it.

Quote:Another example is the teaching that Christians are expected to tithe ten percent of their income to pay for clergy salaries, building maintenance and, where applicable, judicatory expenses. Such expectations make tithing a litmus test for discipleship. Real Christians tithe. Those that don’t should be ashamed of themselves.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/14/us/sunday-stickup/
How passing the plate becomes the 'Sunday morning stickup'
Quote:"You all going to think I'm crazy, but God says give again," the pastor said.

The congregation rose from their seats to march to the front as the church organist played a soothing melody. As they dropped off their offerings at the altar, the pastor urged them on with, "God says give everything; don't hold nothing back."


Quote:If a pastor or church leader has ever told you that the Bible commands Christians to tithe or give 10% of their income; hit you up for multiple offerings during one service; made you march up front to give; asked you to donate to a mysterious "building fund" or give a "first-fruit" offering; or even given special recognition to big givers in your congregation, Lee and other pastors have a message for you:

You are getting played.

Quote:While Christians are commanded to be generous, there are "absolutely no references in the New Testament church of anyone ever paying tithes, '' he writes in his book "Sunday Morning Stickup."

But mandatory tithing is the cornerstone of many churches' teaching on giving. It's not unusual for them to provide special offering slots or envelopes for tithers.

Quote:Lee says he's seen churches relentlessly goad members to donate to the construction of lavish buildings that become more of a monument to a pastor's ego than a place to worship and to serve the needy.

"If you have a $40 million building that's filled with people who don't have life insurance and are struggling to make ends meet, the priorities are mixed up," he says.
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26-01-2016, 06:57 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2016 07:05 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(26-01-2016 06:14 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 09:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You based this on what, some headline you read in news? Do you know anyone personally who was shamed for not contributing 10%?
I don't tend to talk to my aquantances regarding the money that they give to their church. People wouldn't take kindly to my prying into their personal financial affairs.
So my main source of information is tabloid headlines and articles.
(26-01-2016 09:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Whats ironic about individuals such as yourself and many other atheists, who speak so strongly in support of evidence and rationalism, routinely pass off easily debunkable BS. Rather than taking two seconds to verify if your purely antidotal claims are supported by the data, you chose the lazy mans route and prefer to pass along whatever anti-religious prejudices caught your fancy hoping no one calls you out on it.
OK, here are some articles. If you are denying that tithes, first fruit, seed money etc aren't a feature of many Christian orgainsations then please feel free to refute.
If you are denying that these have no impact on the poor then also please feel free to refute.

BTW - I'm not interested in your interpretation of what the Bible says. I'm only interested in what churches actually do.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/articl...d=10630407
Destiny Church demands more than tithe, former members say
Quote:Former Destiny Taranaki member Randolph Pratt said members came under pressure to contribute to the fundraising drives above their 10 per cent tithe.

"There's a lot of people in Destiny Church in low-income families," he said.

"How can they afford to give that sort of money?"

http://www.tfh.org/tithe
Quote:The foundation and essence of the Christian life is to follow Jesus with all that we are and hold nothing back. To be a disciple means that my financial life will be inseparably connected to my worship. To be a lover of God is to be a giver; to be filled with the Spirit is to be filled with the very essence of our generous God. In other words, when we get saved our wallets must be converted as well!

http://www.tithing.com/blog/pastor-posts...tin-board/
Quote:A pastor posted a list of the Church members who were not tithers.

http://madamenoire.com/547607/church-sen...id-tithes/
Church Sends Woman Collection Notice For Unpaid Tithes
Quote:Candace Peterson was shocked when she received a collection notice from the Greater Mount Moriah Primitive Baptist Church stating that she will be required to pay $1,000 per year in donations or she won’t be considered a member of the congregation
Quote:To be a member in good standing and have the right to vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month,” read Peterson.


http://www.themonastery.org/blog/2015/08...t-tithing/
Woman Banned From Church for Not Tithing
Quote:You may have heard in the news recently about a woman named Josephine King who has been banned from her church because she was not tithing regularly. The 92-year-old woman was informed through a written notice that because she was not contributing to the church properly financially or physically, she was not allowed to attend church at African Baptist Church in Bainbridge, Georgia anymore.


http://progressivechristianity.org/resou...-of-shame/
Churches Teaching the Doctrine of Shame
Quote:Many churches teach the doctrine of shame without really knowing it.

Quote:Another example is the teaching that Christians are expected to tithe ten percent of their income to pay for clergy salaries, building maintenance and, where applicable, judicatory expenses. Such expectations make tithing a litmus test for discipleship. Real Christians tithe. Those that don’t should be ashamed of themselves.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/14/us/sunday-stickup/
How passing the plate becomes the 'Sunday morning stickup'
Quote:"You all going to think I'm crazy, but God says give again," the pastor said.

The congregation rose from their seats to march to the front as the church organist played a soothing melody. As they dropped off their offerings at the altar, the pastor urged them on with, "God says give everything; don't hold nothing back."


Quote:If a pastor or church leader has ever told you that the Bible commands Christians to tithe or give 10% of their income; hit you up for multiple offerings during one service; made you march up front to give; asked you to donate to a mysterious "building fund" or give a "first-fruit" offering; or even given special recognition to big givers in your congregation, Lee and other pastors have a message for you:

You are getting played.

Quote:While Christians are commanded to be generous, there are "absolutely no references in the New Testament church of anyone ever paying tithes, '' he writes in his book "Sunday Morning Stickup."

But mandatory tithing is the cornerstone of many churches' teaching on giving. It's not unusual for them to provide special offering slots or envelopes for tithers.

Quote:Lee says he's seen churches relentlessly goad members to donate to the construction of lavish buildings that become more of a monument to a pastor's ego than a place to worship and to serve the needy.

"If you have a $40 million building that's filled with people who don't have life insurance and are struggling to make ends meet, the priorities are mixed up," he says.

Apparently you don't see the problem with quoting anecdotes to make a generalized statement about the practices or happening of most churches. The thing about a religion of over 2 billion people is that you can find antidotes for nearly anything, from snake handling, to holy laughter, to witch burning, to preachers begging the congregation for money for a jet.

The facts are that people in most churches don't get shamed for not contributing 10 percent of their income. In fact that average tithe contribution hovers around 2%. So while you might imagine that folks who don't contribute 10% are routinely shamed in most churches, ridiculed, or forced to contribute more, particularly the poor, it's just your fantasy. As you put it tabloid headlines, that hardly represent anything close to a norm.

This isn't about anyones interpretation about scripture, of whether or not christians are suppose to contribute 10% or not, or even wether most churches believes they should. But rather about your claims as to what happens frequently when people don't contribute this amount.

You should know better than try and form generalization about a religion of over 2 billion people based what you read in tabloids and headlines, because your samples are not going to be representative.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-01-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(26-01-2016 06:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Apparently you don't see the problem with quoting antidotes to make a generalized statement about the practices or happening of most churches. The thing about a religion of over 2 billion people is that you can find antidotes for nearly anything, from snake handling, to holy laughter, to witch burning, to preachers begging the congregation for money for a jet.

The word you want is "anecdote".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-01-2016, 07:05 PM
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(26-01-2016 07:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 06:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Apparently you don't see the problem with quoting antidotes to make a generalized statement about the practices or happening of most churches. The thing about a religion of over 2 billion people is that you can find antidotes for nearly anything, from snake handling, to holy laughter, to witch burning, to preachers begging the congregation for money for a jet.

The word you want is "anecdote".

Thanks buddy.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-01-2016, 07:18 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2016 09:22 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Do you think Christianity is all about making money?
(26-01-2016 06:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Apparently you don't see the problem with quoting anecdotes to make a generalized statement about the practices or happening of most churches.
Where did I say most?
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