Do you think this is unethical?
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25-06-2012, 08:49 PM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(25-06-2012 03:45 AM)Filox Wrote:  Wait BryanS, did you even read the rest of these posts?

There ain't no "rest of these posts." There's you, going off on a tangent to forward your agenda. Tongue

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26-06-2012, 02:13 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
I will try to explain all this one more time, slowly.

A company X puts cookies in your computer. You delete them because you like your computer. You continue using company X without knowing anything about their cookies and their "protection".

Can you please define at what point did I steal anything and what unethical thing did I do just now?

Is it stealing if I keep my computer clean? Or is it unethical to delete something that does not belong in MY computer? Is there a law that compels me to keep those cookies?

No, cookies are not illegal, but you can see how most of the antivirus programs can be enabled to search for cookies along with viruses. Cookies have some similarities with viruses and therefore they are in the grey zone.

This is unethical is you consider it unethical, but please do not call it stealing and learn the mechanism how everything is done, before claiming this is stealing. It is not and no court could prosecute anyone for stealing. Not like this.

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26-06-2012, 03:11 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(26-06-2012 02:13 AM)Filox Wrote:  I will try to explain all this one more time, slowly.

A company X puts cookies in your computer. You delete them because you like your computer. You continue using company X without knowing anything about their cookies and their "protection".

Can you please define at what point did I steal anything and what unethical thing did I do just now?

Is it stealing if I keep my computer clean? Or is it unethical to delete something that does not belong in MY computer? Is there a law that compels me to keep those cookies?

No, cookies are not illegal, but you can see how most of the antivirus programs can be enabled to search for cookies along with viruses. Cookies have some similarities with viruses and therefore they are in the grey zone.

This is unethical is you consider it unethical, but please do not call it stealing and learn the mechanism how everything is done, before claiming this is stealing. It is not and no court could prosecute anyone for stealing. Not like this.
I love the way you think. You could blame it on ccleaner! Cleans cookies good. But I have no idea on what the law says on cookies.

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26-06-2012, 04:58 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
I know what the laws says about cookies. Nothing. You are free to do whatever you want with them, once they are in your computer. You can keep them, you can kill them, you can nurse them until they grow old, you can fal in love with them, you can eat them...

My "thinking" is just the most basic facts. You can draw your conclusions from the facts. The point is that you do not need to put the blame on anyone, because by cleaning cookies you do nothing wrong, illegal or unethical.

That is why there is no stealing in this story. There is only very, very bad security and that is not our problem.

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26-06-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(22-06-2012 06:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Fine. Girly gives you 10 free views of my posts on TTA per month, Leela. I want a penny per view after that.
...
Best to just put me on your ignore list now lest you encounter an ethical dilemma. Wink
ok, done *click*

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26-06-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(26-06-2012 04:58 AM)Filox Wrote:  I know what the laws says about cookies. Nothing. You are free to do whatever you want with them, once they are in your computer. You can keep them, you can kill them, you can nurse them until they grow old, you can fal in love with them, you can eat them...

My "thinking" is just the most basic facts. You can draw your conclusions from the facts. The point is that you do not need to put the blame on anyone, because by cleaning cookies you do nothing wrong, illegal or unethical.

That is why there is no stealing in this story. There is only very, very bad security and that is not our problem.


"I know what the laws says about cookies. Nothing. " Right. And that is inconsistent with the claim that a site using cookies does so illegally.

Clearing cookies is not illegal. The use of cookies is just a convenient mechanism for the site operator to determine you've hit your free quota for the month. They could use another method and address your concern about getting cookie-abused. They could simply not let anyone view their content without registering and logging in every time you wanted to view an article. Perhaps they thought that would be really annoying to require registration and thought it would be more reader friendly and convenient to just use a cookie.

The terms of service are also probably on this web site. It is clear what they are allowing you to view free of charge. I suppose you're one of those people who would pay for one newspaper in a street newspaper dispenser, and then take multiple copies just because the fools made it too easy to steal?

Would you be gracious enough to grant that they don't have to give you anything for free if they don't want to? What your complaint really seems to be is that you feel entitled to benefit from the work of reporters and the organization that produces this content without having to pay for it. As was pointed out by another upthread, news organizations are struggling due to the difficulties in monetizing online content.
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26-06-2012, 11:43 PM (This post was last modified: 26-06-2012 11:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(26-06-2012 11:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  
(22-06-2012 06:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Fine. Girly gives you 10 free views of my posts on TTA per month, Leela. I want a penny per view after that.
...
Best to just put me on your ignore list now lest you encounter an ethical dilemma. Wink
ok, done *click*
Wait, don't. I like talking to you. Deal with it and send me your pennies. ... The whole goddam premise that I'm suddenly required to keep track of the web sites I privately browse is so much bullshit. ... Try and fuckin' make me, fucker, it's goddam fucking ridiculous.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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27-06-2012, 12:27 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(26-06-2012 11:05 PM)BryanS Wrote:  "I know what the laws says about cookies. Nothing. " Right. And that is inconsistent with the claim that a site using cookies does so illegally.

Clearing cookies is not illegal. The use of cookies is just a convenient mechanism for the site operator to determine you've hit your free quota for the month. They could use another method and address your concern about getting cookie-abused. They could simply not let anyone view their content without registering and logging in every time you wanted to view an article. Perhaps they thought that would be really annoying to require registration and thought it would be more reader friendly and convenient to just use a cookie.

The terms of service are also probably on this web site. It is clear what they are allowing you to view free of charge. I suppose you're one of those people who would pay for one newspaper in a street newspaper dispenser, and then take multiple copies just because the fools made it too easy to steal?

Would you be gracious enough to grant that they don't have to give you anything for free if they don't want to? What your complaint really seems to be is that you feel entitled to benefit from the work of reporters and the organization that produces this content without having to pay for it. As was pointed out by another upthread, news organizations are struggling due to the difficulties in monetizing online content.


No, I will never take more than one newspaper. I am not a thief, nor immoral person. I don't use or visit sites that want me to pay for them, there is no point, since I can have it all for free.

What I am doing is giving you some facts. Pure and simple, explaining things the way I see it. Yes, cookies are a grey zone of legality, as they collect info about you without your consent or knowledge, but they are not illegal. I think they should be, at least some types of them, but they are not, that was my anger speaking. Smile

You are free to draw your own conclusions, feel the way you think it's best, live accordingly to that.

Peace.

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27-06-2012, 05:00 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
Technically speaking they defer session state to your computer so that it can be presented back to the web site as part of later requests. Cookies can be used for a variety of purposes, and tracking is one such purpose.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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27-06-2012, 08:12 AM
RE: Do you think this is unethical?
(26-06-2012 11:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-06-2012 11:20 AM)Leela Wrote:  ok, done *click*
Wait, don't. I like talking to you. Deal with it and send me your pennies. ... The whole goddam premise that I'm suddenly required to keep track of the web sites I privately browse is so much bullshit. ... Try and fuckin' make me, fucker, it's goddam fucking ridiculous.
Can't read you, you are ignored by me Tongue

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