Do you wish it were true?
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16-05-2011, 06:50 AM
 
Do you wish it were true?
I'm going to speak in terms of Christianity because I was raised in North America.

I was raised a Catholic, then "converted" to Baptist because of a girl in my teens
(sex is a strong motivator for a 17 year old). I was "saved" shortly after this time and was a hard core Christian (ahem...conveniently ignoring the whole sex issue) but once into my 20's began questioning it all.

My problem is now is that although I want it to be true, I simply can't accept. Who wouldn't want to live forever in paradise with all of your loved ones?

My atheist friend pointed out the fact that he wouldn't want an angry, vengeful God to actually exist but if I had compelling, reproducible evidence, I think I could manage with all the stuff Christians typically ignore in the Bible.

So...if it could be proved beyond a doubt about Jesus, would you be happy?

This is my first real post here so hopefully it made some sense.
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16-05-2011, 06:56 AM
RE: Do you wish it were true?
(16-05-2011 06:50 AM)HornetFlight Wrote:  So...if it could be proved beyond a doubt about Jesus, would you be happy?

This is my first real post here so hopefully it made some sense.

HornetFlight - First, welcome to the Forum. Second, just for clarification, are you posing the question hypothetically, or do you propose to offer proof beyond doubt?

You may want to take a couple hours and acquaint yourself with some of the previous topics and discussions that offer many opinions related to your question Smile

Welcome aboard - Sean

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16-05-2011, 07:08 AM
 
RE: Do you wish it were true?
(16-05-2011 06:56 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(16-05-2011 06:50 AM)HornetFlight Wrote:  So...if it could be proved beyond a doubt about Jesus, would you be happy?

This is my first real post here so hopefully it made some sense.

HornetFlight - First, welcome to the Forum. Second, just for clarification, are you posing the question hypothetically, or do you propose to offer proof beyond doubt?

You may want to take a couple hours and acquaint yourself with some of the previous topics and discussions that offer many opinions related to your question Smile

Welcome aboard - Sean

Hi Sean,

I've been browsing, but there is a lot to read.

And it was a hypothe...actually, I have proof beyond doubt. Please send 49.95$ and I would be pleased to share it.
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16-05-2011, 07:15 AM
RE: Do you wish it were true?
(16-05-2011 07:08 AM)HornetFlight Wrote:  And it was a hypothe...actually, I have proof beyond doubt. Please send 49.95$ and I would be pleased to share it.

Awesome - a guy after my own spirit! I keep talking about opening up a megachurch when I retire - there is money in selling Jesus to the masses - better than hitting the lottery, it's the gift that keeps on giving every Sunday! Wink

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16-05-2011, 07:17 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2011 07:23 AM by Observer.)
RE: Do you wish it were true?
I think, a better question would be, what is it that I would want to accept as proof for Jesus. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove everything to be true about Jesus simply because the bible contradicts itself in many ways. So, for the story of Jesus to be proven, first there needs to be a consensus on the story of Jesus.

Let's -for the sake of argument- take that only the dogma "Jesus died for my sins, and if I accept that I am saved". Would I want THAT to be true?

No!
God sacrificing him to himself to free us from sins he himself created is scapegoating. If I have sins, I would want my OWN responsibility for them.

Edit:
Come to think about it... If I ask the same kind of "IF" question about an other subject, you can clearly see the skewed perspective on this type of questions.

If my mother had wheels, would you consider her a cart? Smile

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16-05-2011, 08:15 AM
RE: Do you wish it were true?
Christianity? No, I don't much like their god. I've never used the argument from evil when arguing against theism. God could exist and just like to watch African children die of AIDS for fun. But, I wouldn't want that god to exist. I would want a benevolent god to exist. How you could reconcile that with reality I have no idea.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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16-05-2011, 08:24 AM
RE: Do you wish it were true?
(16-05-2011 08:15 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  I would want a benevolent god to exist. How you could reconcile that with reality I have no idea.

I tried for many years! My reconciliation was that god was no longer interactive - bedip, bedip, depid, that's all folks...If he ever "watched" at all, it was like tuning into to a Jerry Springer episode for 5 minutes before having to turn the channel.

The question that plagued me for years was if god is an absentee parent (for lack of a better term) then who the hell is everyone praying to? What was the point of singing and worship if there was no one on the other end of the line?

But I agree wholeheartedly with Ashley and many others hear - Yahweh is a sick, demented SOB and if he were real, I want no part of him...

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16-05-2011, 08:32 AM
 
RE: Do you wish it were true?
(16-05-2011 06:50 AM)HornetFlight Wrote:  So...if it could be proved beyond a doubt about Jesus, would you be happy?

This is my first real post here so hopefully it made some sense.

In point of fact a Jewish Rabbi, said to be of the Essene sect, named Yeshu (Joshua) Bin Joseph, (Joshua of the house of Joseph), did exist. However, he was born to Miriam who conceived him out of wedlock, not as a virgin.And his father was said to be Panther, a Roman centurion.
Joshua/Yeshu, was well versed in the Hebrew scriptures and committed blasphemy, according to the Pharisee of the Temple, because he wasn't ordained to teach the scriptures, and what he did teach declared people didn't need the temple, nor it's uppity hierarchy that lived well off of supplicating their people by their edict, to Rome first and to their own high living second.
Consequently, Joshua/Yeshu/Jesus<Greek, and not at all any name that would be given a Hebrew/Jewish male ever, was found guilty of blasphemy. And he and his band of fellows who taught as he taught amid the Jewish population of today's Palestine, were hanged on the eve of Passover.
All this is found in the Babylonian Talmud. (LINK)


Then there's the Gnostic accounts of a Jesus. A real son of a bitch, when he was a child, because he would kill his playmates and then bring them back to life, simply because he had the power to.

With regard to the Roman New Testament, which was authorized and approved as a lawful religion under Constantine, the Jesus of those scriptures is a fabrication. None the less, he wasn't all love and light either. He was racist, in that the scriptures say he came only to save the sheep of the house of Israel. And in the course of that "salvation" he instructed those who would follow him as slaves, because the Christian faith was first known as the religion of the slaves, because it promised the slaves they'd live like kings after they were dead if only they lived by the Christian tenets while alive, which included according to Jesus admonition, to remain obedient unto their earthly masters!

The Jesus of the Bible can never be proven to have existed, because that fantastical magical man was a fabrication. The Jew, the Essene, was executed and his body did not ascend unto heaven but was entombed and then, as is Jewish custom, when the flesh was rotted away, the bones were secreted away and buried somewhere no one will ever know.
He was a man. He was made to become a dead man. There's no paradise possible, save for what was stolen from the myths of the Roman pantheon and legends, at the time the NT was compiled. 2/3rds of which was written by Paul, a Pharisee, who never knew Jesus. Instead, what was created with a conspiracy between the Jews, who led the goy away from their Hebrew tradition by helping to author a fantastical tale relating of a Messiah the Jews did not acknowledge as the promised son of god, and in collaboration with the Roman authority. It was all a lie compiled from Hebrew and Roman myths, so as to enslave the world unto it. Thereby insuring in that way that Rome would continue to rule the world even after they fell.

Christianity is a lie. Every last tittle of it's scripture is a lie, is stolen from other faiths, and cultures, and is compiled in order to enslave the whole person unto it body, mind and alleged spirit.

So to answer your question, of course not.Bible Jesus never did exist. So there is nothing that can persuade me to believe, when there's nothing to believe in.
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16-05-2011, 03:23 PM
RE: Do you wish it were true?
Well, I think it's a no brainer that people would wish it to be true. Lets see...rot in the ground or live forever? However there would need to be so many contingencies to that notion..like, no hell, everyone's in heaven, no one would be allowed to kill themselves or someone else on purpose. Of course then there would have to be a penalty for those that did kill on purpose...like they would rot in the ground, but then what if it was someone that you loved and they wanted you to be happy so they killed you to send you to heaven as a form of selfless sacrifice. Then of course we still have to deal with grief,etc, etc. Ya know, it woulda been much simpler for god to have yanked that damn tree outta the garden before eve ate from it I thinkUndecided. COme to think of it, it woulda been easier to get rid of the tree then flood the earth, or send his son to be brutally beaten, mocked, and killedDodgy. I guess we're all waiting now for god to realize he needs to start over( aka rapture)Angel Well, i wish he'd hurry the hell up, becasue most of us down here have already figured out how messed up it isAngry
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16-05-2011, 07:21 PM
 
RE: Do you wish it were true?
(16-05-2011 03:23 PM)djgenx7 Wrote:  Well, I think it's a no brainer that people would wish it to be true. Lets see...rot in the ground or live forever?
Tongue You sound like without immortality being a real shot, you'd be offended and conscious of your body rotting underground. Tongue
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