Doc's Ebonic Sunday skoo, foo'
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07-01-2016, 01:16 AM
RE: Doc's erratic Sunday School (consistently preaching the Word since 2013)
(06-01-2016 12:54 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  You teach, too? I thought all you did was... well, you know... have fun.

Doc

Well, tbh, it's more like stand-up comedy than teaching. "Training" is a more apt descriptor.

Gotta do something with my spare (non-fun) time.

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07-01-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Doc's erratic Sunday School (consistently preaching the Word since 2013)
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, I came across something new a couple of days ago. YHWH and human sacrifice. Everybody knows the story of Abraham being told by God to sacrifice his son, Isaac to "prove" his love for God. Most people are also aware of the sacrifice by Jephthah of his only daughter to YHWH for granting him victory in battle. But, there is a third story in the Bible that reinforces the blood-thirstiness of YHWH.

In 2 Samuel 21, we read of a three year famine that struck Israel. David inquired of the Lord and was told that the famine was the result of the previous king, Saul's attempt to kill the Gibeonites (a people not of Israelite stock and an incident not recorded in the Bible). Apparently, the nation of Israel had promised to spare the Gibeonites but for some reason Saul went back on his word. For this sin, the nation of Israel was punished with a three year famine well after Saul's death. Makes sense, right?

Anyhoo, David called the Gibeonites and asked them what they wanted to do. They replied that since it was Saul's fault, the obvious answer was that Saul's family must pay the price. So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

......and I am sure that David spent extra time making sure the foreskins were properly removed when they were younger to be sure that not a fragment of those deliciously icky things were on those dead bodies before he exposed them to god.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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07-01-2016, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 08-01-2016 06:39 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Doc's erratic Sunday School (consistently preaching the Word since 2013)
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, I came across something new a couple of days ago. YHWH and human sacrifice. Everybody knows the story of Abraham being told by God to sacrifice his son, Isaac to "prove" his love for God. Most people are also aware of the sacrifice by Jephthah of his only daughter to YHWH for granting him victory in battle. But, there is a third story in the Bible that reinforces the blood-thirstiness of YHWH.

In 2 Samuel 21, we read of a three year famine that struck Israel. David inquired of the Lord and was told that the famine was the result of the previous king, Saul's attempt to kill the Gibeonites (a people not of Israelite stock and an incident not recorded in the Bible). Apparently, the nation of Israel had promised to spare the Gibeonites but for some reason Saul went back on his word. For this sin, the nation of Israel was punished with a three year famine well after Saul's death. Makes sense, right?

Anyhoo, David called the Gibeonites and asked them what they wanted to do. They replied that since it was Saul's fault, the obvious answer was that Saul's family must pay the price. So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

That business about the "ram in the thicket" (the ram that Abraham sacrificed instead of his son) is rather interesting, and it didn't really come to light until Woolley ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Woolley ) made his archaeological discoveries. The "ram eating from the tree of life", (another "tree in paradise") as well as it's various mythical iterations, (that particular ram could/can kill snakes) is pretty ubiquitous in Sumerian/Babylonian myths, and nobody really got that, or the connection until about 100 years ago.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ram+in+a...giXR3wM%3D

OK. Back to throwing spitballs from the back. Carry on.

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11-01-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

So, there is an interesting sequel to this episode. After destroying (most of) Saul's household, David himself faced a revolt led by his son Absalom (2 Samuel 15) and was forced into exile. While he was fleeing, he came across a man called Shimei who cursed him from a distance saying, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”

David's followers wanted to kill Shimei, but David asked them to "Leave him alone; let him curse, for the Lord has told him to." In fact in 2 Sameul 19, when David returned in triumph after defeating Absalom and met Shimei again, he pardoned him saying, "“You shall not die.” And the king promised him on oath."

However, when he was on his deathbed, David appears to have changed his mind. In 1 Kings 2, he tells his successor, Solomon, "And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”

These were the last words of David before he died.

I just thought I'd share.

Doc
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11-01-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(11-01-2016 02:24 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

So, there is an interesting sequel to this episode. After destroying (most of) Saul's household, David himself faced a revolt led by his son Absalom (2 Samuel 15) and was forced into exile. While he was fleeing, he came across a man called Shimei who cursed him from a distance saying, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”

David's followers wanted to kill Shimei, but David asked them to "Leave him alone; let him curse, for the Lord has told him to." In fact in 2 Sameul 19, when David returned in triumph after defeating Absalom and met Shimei again, he pardoned him saying, "“You shall not die.” And the king promised him on oath."

However, when he was on his deathbed, David appears to have changed his mind. In 1 Kings 2, he tells his successor, Solomon, "And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”

These were the last words of David before he died.

I just thought I'd share.

Doc

I know that the Jewish conception of afterlife was / is different to the NT version, in that throughout the OT people seemed to fear dying, and the LORD would smite people and *kill* them as a punishment for innocuous things like trying not to let the ark of the covenant fall while in transit by lending a helpful shoulder and so forth, which seems odd, since... y'know, in the NT it was made clear that killing someone wasn't hardly a punishment at all, since what was to be feared was going to hell.

Like, ol' Solomon's gonna go and whack this geezer over the head for insulting his daddy-o, but the geezer didn't exactly commit a sin right? So according to NT shouldn't he be going to heaven? So what's to fear about having your gray head brought down to the grave in blood? What's the point of Solomon doing it? It only makes sense to me if the *dying* is what is to be feared.

i.e. I think people back then were more sensible than people now and knew that if you kill a cow there's no essence of cow that keeps going, it's kaput! Finish. Ended. And the same applies to humans...

Just some thoughts... not sure how factual they may be.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-01-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(11-01-2016 02:24 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

So, there is an interesting sequel to this episode. After destroying (most of) Saul's household, David himself faced a revolt led by his son Absalom (2 Samuel 15) and was forced into exile. While he was fleeing, he came across a man called Shimei who cursed him from a distance saying, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”

David's followers wanted to kill Shimei, but David asked them to "Leave him alone; let him curse, for the Lord has told him to." In fact in 2 Sameul 19, when David returned in triumph after defeating Absalom and met Shimei again, he pardoned him saying, "“You shall not die.” And the king promised him on oath."

However, when he was on his deathbed, David appears to have changed his mind. In 1 Kings 2, he tells his successor, Solomon, "And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”

These were the last words of David before he died.

I just thought I'd share.

Doc

This reminds me so much of The Godfather, where Michael had a whole list of people to kill, but only after old Vito was dead.
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11-01-2016, 04:06 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(11-01-2016 02:24 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

So, there is an interesting sequel to this episode. After destroying (most of) Saul's household, David himself faced a revolt led by his son Absalom (2 Samuel 15) and was forced into exile. While he was fleeing, he came across a man called Shimei who cursed him from a distance saying, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”

David's followers wanted to kill Shimei, but David asked them to "Leave him alone; let him curse, for the Lord has told him to." In fact in 2 Sameul 19, when David returned in triumph after defeating Absalom and met Shimei again, he pardoned him saying, "“You shall not die.” And the king promised him on oath."

However, when he was on his deathbed, David appears to have changed his mind. In 1 Kings 2, he tells his successor, Solomon, "And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”

These were the last words of David before he died.

I just thought I'd share.

Doc

It was the drugs.
People go wacko when they're on the way out, on too many drugs. Yes

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-01-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(11-01-2016 02:24 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 12:05 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, 7 of Saul's male descendants (by sheer coincidence, the next of kin to Saul and the next in line to inherit the throne) were "killed and their bodies exposed before the Lord" (verse 6). "And after that God heeded the prayer for the land" (verse 14).

So, with one stroke, David eliminated the threats to the throne and solved the famine problem. With human sacrifice. Neat, no?

Doc

So, there is an interesting sequel to this episode. After destroying (most of) Saul's household, David himself faced a revolt led by his son Absalom (2 Samuel 15) and was forced into exile. While he was fleeing, he came across a man called Shimei who cursed him from a distance saying, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”

David's followers wanted to kill Shimei, but David asked them to "Leave him alone; let him curse, for the Lord has told him to." In fact in 2 Sameul 19, when David returned in triumph after defeating Absalom and met Shimei again, he pardoned him saying, "“You shall not die.” And the king promised him on oath."

However, when he was on his deathbed, David appears to have changed his mind. In 1 Kings 2, he tells his successor, Solomon, "And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”

These were the last words of David before he died.

I just thought I'd share.

Doc

So, was the entire House of David composed of lying, murderous, adulterous fuckwits? Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-01-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(11-01-2016 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 02:24 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, there is an interesting sequel to this episode. After destroying (most of) Saul's household, David himself faced a revolt led by his son Absalom (2 Samuel 15) and was forced into exile. While he was fleeing, he came across a man called Shimei who cursed him from a distance saying, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”

David's followers wanted to kill Shimei, but David asked them to "Leave him alone; let him curse, for the Lord has told him to." In fact in 2 Sameul 19, when David returned in triumph after defeating Absalom and met Shimei again, he pardoned him saying, "“You shall not die.” And the king promised him on oath."

However, when he was on his deathbed, David appears to have changed his mind. In 1 Kings 2, he tells his successor, Solomon, "And remember, you have with you Shimei son of Gera, I swore to him by the Lord: ‘I will not put you to death by the sword.’ But now, do not consider him innocent. You are a man of wisdom; you will know what to do to him. Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood.”

These were the last words of David before he died.

I just thought I'd share.

Doc

So, was the entire House of David composed of lying, murderous, adulterous fuckwits? Consider

Why should they be any different than the rest of the people in the Old Testament?
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11-01-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: Doc's pedagogic Sunday School (no, it's not what you think it is)
(02-04-2013 04:07 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  ******

We need proof.
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