Doc's bishopric Sunday School (Noun or adjective? One word or two?)
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21-01-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
(21-01-2014 07:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Doc: A glass of communion wine, for pity's sake. Just a glass. To keep the terrors away.

Im_Ryan, slapping Doc: Snap out of it, man. It's time to start the Sunday School.

Escape Artist: You know, they say you should never strike a drunk man.

Im_Ryan: Doc's drunk? Oh, well! Look, Doc. I have a question about the zombies.

Doc: Zombies? What zombies?

Im_Ryan: That Lazarus dude we talked about yesterday. If Jesus raised him from the dead, he must have been a zombie.

Doc, outraged: Not at all! When Lazarus was resurrected, he came out of the tomb whole. There was no decay. Martha, his sister was afraid that there would be a "stink" when the tomb was opened, but there was none.

Im_Ryan: Doc, do you know what happens when people die? Unless Lazarus was only brain-dead, his heart stopped beating as well. In the absence of circulation, toxins accumulate within the cells, causing cell lysis with the further release of intracellular chemicals. The buildup of carbon dioxide and the lack of oxygen in the cells contribute to this process as well. Within a few hours, anaerobic bacteria within the body that thrive in the low-oxygen environment multiply exponentially, causing the massive digestion of tissues and releasing gases such as carbon dioxide, methane, hydrogen sulfide, and ammonia, all of which contribute to the characteristic smell of human decay.

Scientist have classified human decay into several stages. They are
1. Fresh
2. Bloat
3. Active Decay
4. Advanced decay
5. Dry/Remains

Since Lazarus was dead for at least 4 days before being resurrected, he must have been well into the bloat phase or depending on the weather, maybe even in the active decay phase.

Doc, sweating and hands shaking: So?

Im_Ryan: So, when Lazarus was resurrected, where did all the products of decay go? Since there was no odor of decay, it did not escape into the atmosphere. This would imply one of two things: either he was preserved intact from the moment of death or the changes of death were instantaneously reversed at the moment of his resurrection.

If the former, then Jesus had to have known the exact moment that Lazarus died to set into motion a hibernation or stasis process that preserved his body. This would also mean that Jesus (being divine) had the power to prevent Lazarus's death but chose not to do so. Instead, he chose to allow Martha and Mary to suffer grief for four whole days while he deliberately waited for two extra days at Bethabara following their appeal. This was done specifically so that "God's son may be glorified through it" (John 11:4).

If the latter...

Doc: Oh, look! A pink elephant.

Yay, I took part in a lesson! I can cross that off my to do list Big Grin
...bonus points for use of zombies and biology, you know me so well Thumbsup

Atir aissom atir imon
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21-01-2014, 03:03 PM
DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
(21-01-2014 07:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Doc: A glass of communion wine, for pity's sake. Just a glass. To keep the terrors away.

Im_Ryan, slapping Doc: Snap out of it, man. It's time to start the Sunday School.

Escape Artist: You know, they say you should never strike a drunk man.

Im_Ryan: Doc's drunk? Oh, well! Look, Doc. I have a question about the zombies.

Doc: Zombies? What zombies?

Im_Ryan: That Lazarus dude we talked about yesterday. If Jesus raised him from the dead, he must have been a zombie.

Doc, outraged: Not at all! When Lazarus was resurrected, he came out of the tomb whole. There was no decay. Martha, his sister was afraid that there would be a "stink" when the tomb was opened, but there was none.

Im_Ryan: Doc, do you know what happens when people die? Unless Lazarus was only brain-dead, his heart stopped beating as well. In the absence of circulation, toxins accumulate within the cells, causing cell lysis with the further release of intracellular chemicals. The buildup of carbon dioxide and the lack of oxygen in the cells contribute to this process as well. Within a few hours, anaerobic bacteria within the body that thrive in the low-oxygen environment multiply exponentially, causing the massive digestion of tissues and releasing gases such as carbon dioxide, methane, hydrogen sulfide, and ammonia, all of which contribute to the characteristic smell of human decay.

Scientist have classified human decay into several stages. They are
1. Fresh
2. Bloat
3. Active Decay
4. Advanced decay
5. Dry/Remains

Since Lazarus was dead for at least 4 days before being resurrected, he must have been well into the bloat phase or depending on the weather, maybe even in the active decay phase.

Doc, sweating and hands shaking: So?

Im_Ryan: So, when Lazarus was resurrected, where did all the products of decay go? Since there was no odor of decay, it did not escape into the atmosphere. This would imply one of two things: either he was preserved intact from the moment of death or the changes of death were instantaneously reversed at the moment of his resurrection.

If the former, then Jesus had to have known the exact moment that Lazarus died to set into motion a hibernation or stasis process that preserved his body. This would also mean that Jesus (being divine) had the power to prevent Lazarus's death but chose not to do so. Instead, he chose to allow Martha and Mary to suffer grief for four whole days while he deliberately waited for two extra days at Bethabara following their appeal. This was done specifically so that "God's son may be glorified through it" (John 11:4).

If the latter...

Doc: Oh, look! A pink elephant.

I can think of a 3rd possibility: Jesus did not resurrect Lazarus at all. He simply created an illusion in the minds of both women to teach them a valuable (albeit elaborate) lesson.

Perhaps a 4th possibility?: Lazarus never actually died in the first place. He had consumed Datura and was turning into a "zombie" similar to those depicted in The Serpent and The Rainbow. No wonder he was cranky!

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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21-01-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
Why do religious types love the gospel of John as apposed to the "other accounts"


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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21-01-2014, 11:00 PM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
One thing I've always wondered - wondered since I was a child - is why didn't Glob, er God, just start over, hit the reset button after Adam and Eve fucked up? For that matter, why put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil within such temptingly easy reach of them anyway? Why create the damn thing AT ALL? I mean, what, was the Tree of G&E like the pretzels that come in my Chex Mix that I don't really want but they're in there anyway? Was it like a package deal type thing - for every X amount of things created, God got one Tree of G&E as a free gift? And like all free gifts like that, he just didn't know what the hell to do with it and so he decided the best place for it was in the midst of a couple of nekkid peoples who didn't even know enough to know they was nekkid, much less that they shouldn't eat from the tree?

It's maddening, I tell you. Maddening! Hobo

But I'm getting off track. The point is, an omniscient being should've seen that this whole fucker was going to go off the rails right from the outset and just cut his losses and started over, but instead, it's one thing after another trying to plug up all these gaping plot holes and inconsistencies. He's like an author whose manuscript has gone wildly out of control and yet he refuses to trunk the damn thing. You gotta know when to declare the bitch dead, am I right? Tongue

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21-01-2014, 11:35 PM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
(21-01-2014 11:00 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  You gotta know when to declare the bitch dead, am I right? Tongue

Wasn't that what the flood was about?

Consider

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22-01-2014, 02:57 AM
DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
(21-01-2014 11:35 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 11:00 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  You gotta know when to declare the bitch dead, am I right? Tongue

Wasn't that what the flood was about?

Consider

I'm still banking on that having been an accident. Must have left the bath running.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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22-01-2014, 07:29 AM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
Momsurroundedbyboys: Why do religious types love the gospel of John as apposed to the "other accounts"?

Doc: Mom? Mom, is that you? Oh, where have you been? I missed you so much. I've had a terrible time. I've been trying to teach this Sunday School and the students have been just terrible. They bring up all these questions that I can't answer. It's enough to make me want to become an atheist. But now that you're here, everything will be alright.

Im_Ryan: Hey! What about me? I was just saying that the second solution for Lazarus's resurrection would be the instant dissipation of the products of decay. My issue is: where did they go? Not into the atmosphere, because there was no stink. They can't disappear instantaneously into nothingness for that would violate the law of conservation of energy and mass.. And Lazarus could not have absorbed all those products without dying again. So, where did they go?

Doc: See? See what I have to put up with?

Momsurroundedbyboys: There is, of course, a third possibility. Knowing what effect a resurrection from the dead would have on the local populace why could Jesus and the three siblings not have colluded to commit a pious fraud? It would be easy for Lazarus to fall ill and "die" and given the Jewish penchant for early burial could have been quickly buried in the tomb with food and water. This would also explain the bizarre delay by Jesus in responding to the sisters' plea. That would give enough time for the report of Lazarus's death to circulate around the countryside assuring Jesus of a large audience for his "miracle".

Doc: Noooooooo!
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22-01-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
I heard someone was making a big stink in here. Jesus H. Christ. Knock that shit off.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-01-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
I have one last criticism (not an objection, per se) to the story of Lazarus as told by John:

On introducing Lazarus to his reading public for the very first time, John describes him as the brother of Mary, "the same one who poured perfume on the Lord and wiped his feet with her hair" (John 11:2). I find this introduction particularly strange for two reasons. For one, the event (Mary's anointing of Jesus) hadn't happened yet. It occurs in chapter 12, the next chapter. For another, when introducing Lazarus for the first time, would it not make more sense to introduce him as "the one that Jesus raised" and not as "Mary's brother"? It would be analogous to introducing the great Michael Jordan as the outfielder for the Birmingham Barons. Yes, Michael Jordan played baseball for a short time, but that's not what he is famous all over the world for. Similarly, the raising of Lazarus from the dead should have topped any and all events that ever occurred in the life of Lazarus or his loved ones. After all, if the raising of Lazarus was notorious enough to cause Jesus to move away from Bethany for fear of the Jews, the report of Lazarus's raising should have persisted long enough in the populace's memory for them to remember the story (longer anyway than the story of a woman wiping Jesus's feet with her hair).

To be fair, Lazarus is named as "the one that Jesus raised," but that does not happen until the story of Mary wiping Jesus's feet is told in the next chapter, after the story of Lazarus has already been told. Why does John reintroduce Lazarus again to his reading public just a few verses after the latter's monumental encounter with Jesus? It appears, therefore, that the writer assumes that his readers are unfamiliar with the story of Lazarus's resurrection but familiar enough with the story of Mary wiping Jesus's feet to make the latter the reference point. Since from any vantage point, a resurrection from the dead absolutely trumps any other event, John's choice of introductory remarks is strange indeed.

Doc
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23-01-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: DOC'S THERAPEUTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (BLOWING OFF STEAM SINCE 2013)
(23-01-2014 10:57 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Similarly, the raising of Lazarus from the dead should have topped any and all events that ever occurred in the life of Lazarus or his loved ones. After all, if the raising of Lazarus was notorious enough to cause Jesus to move away from Bethany for fear of the Jews, the report of Lazarus's raising should have persisted long enough in the populace's memory for them to remember the story (longer anyway than the story of a woman wiping Jesus's feet with her hair).

Eesh, doc.

Next you'll be telling me that the three-hour eclipse and the dead saints walking through Jerusalem during the crucifixion really ought to have been mentioned in more than one throwaway reference each.

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