Doc's mephitic Sunday School (silent but deadly since 2013)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 9 Votes - 4.22 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-08-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
I wish you and your family the best, the situation sounds very stressful.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
09-08-2016, 08:44 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(09-08-2016 06:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  If you liked that little vignette of Biblical misogyny, consider the following. The book of Nehemiah tells the story of the Jews' return from Babylonian exile under the leadership of Nehemiah, the king's cup-bearer. In the book, Nehemiah speaks about how the Jews had defiled themselves by marrying non-Jews and not teaching their kids to speak Hebrew. Here's what he says in Nehemiah 14: 23-26:

"In those days also I saw the Jews who had married women of Ashdod, Ammon, and Moab. And half of their children spoke the language of Ashdod, and they could not speak the language of Judah, but only the language of each people. And I confronted them and cursed them and beat some of them and pulled out their hair. And I made them take an oath in the name of God, saying, “You shall not give your daughters to their sons, or take their daughters for your sons or for yourselves. Did not Solomon king of Israel sin on account of such women? Among the many nations there was no king like him, and he was beloved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel. Nevertheless, foreign women made even him to sin."

Aside from the incongruous picture of a hero of the Bible bitch-slappin' and hair-pullin', we can easily see that it is always the woman's fault in making the man sin.

Doc

Misogyny isn't the only major problem with that passage. Given that we now know, both genetically and historically, that the people we call "Jews" were not a single people as portrayed in the Exile-era propaganda (oops, I mean the Old Testament) but an amalgamated group of Semites who simply had a religious code to divide them from other people, that passage is racist as fuck. It basically says to attack people who marry outside the race!

(Oops, my mistake, I shouldn't have said "people"... I meant to say "women". It's important to speak in Biblically-accurate terms.)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
09-08-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(09-08-2016 08:44 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  that passage is racist as fuck. It basically says to attack people who marry outside the race!

(Oops, my mistake, I shouldn't have said "people"... I meant to say "women". It's important to speak in Biblically-accurate terms.)

No doubt our resident boneheads would come up with some sort of excuse for God. That or double down and declare (while fapping to whatever porn they like best) that yes indeed, women *are* horrible sinful creatures who cause man to stray from the will of God.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
09-08-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(09-08-2016 09:51 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 08:44 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  that passage is racist as fuck. It basically says to attack people who marry outside the race!

(Oops, my mistake, I shouldn't have said "people"... I meant to say "women". It's important to speak in Biblically-accurate terms.)

No doubt our resident boneheads would come up with some sort of excuse for God. That or double down and declare (while fapping to whatever porn they like best) that yes indeed, women *are* horrible sinful creatures who cause man to stray from the will of God.

Would that be because women are so powerful or that men are so weak? Consider

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Anjele's post
09-08-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(09-08-2016 10:02 AM)‘Anjele Wrote:  Would that be because women are so powerful or that men are so weak? Consider

Why not both?

Weeping

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2016, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2016 03:54 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(09-08-2016 08:44 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Misogyny isn't the only major problem with that passage. Given that we now know, both genetically and historically, that the people we call "Jews" were not a single people as portrayed in the Exile-era propaganda (oops, I mean the Old Testament) but an amalgamated group of Semites who simply had a religious code to divide them from other people, that passage is racist as fuck. It basically says to attack people who marry outside the race!

(Oops, my mistake, I shouldn't have said "people"... I meant to say "women". It's important to speak in Biblically-accurate terms.)

RS76, you are correct. This was primarily an example of xenophobia with a little misogyny thrown in.

There is an interesting sequel to this episode in Nehemiah. Despite his slapping and hair-pulling, he was unable to eradicate the evil of mixed marriages in Judah. Now, there was a second wave of Babylonian returnees and their story is told in Ezra. Despite the fact that the events narrated in Ezra follow that in Nehemiah, in the Bible, the book of Ezra comes before Nehemiah. Go figure. In any case, Ezra, too, is disturbed by all the foreign women he sees in Judah and this is what he says in Ezra 10: 10-11: “You have broken faith and married foreign women, and so increased the guilt of Israel. Now then make confession to the LORD, the God of your fathers and do his will. Separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.

The people agree but raise some objections in v. 12-13, "It is so; we must do as you have said. But the people are many, and it is a time of heavy rain; we cannot stand in the open. Nor is this a task for one day or for two, for we have greatly transgressed in this matter."

So, the main concern of the people is that they don't want to get wet in the rain or to wait too long to hear judgment on their individual cases. No one seems to care that these "foreign" women and their half-breed children, so far from home, were to "be put away". As long as Ezra and YHWH are pleased, these folks were expendable. In the end it took about two months for the appointed judges to examine each man who had married a foreign wife, but Ezra does not say what happened to these unfortunate women and their children. The mind boggles at the possibilities.

Doc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like docskeptic's post
10-08-2016, 10:11 PM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
Religion: Justifying bigotry since the first shaman said to the first sucker, "You know, I think the spirits favor our tribe over that one across the valley."

Sad

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
11-08-2016, 05:17 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(10-08-2016 03:48 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 08:44 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Misogyny isn't the only major problem with that passage. Given that we now know, both genetically and historically, that the people we call "Jews" were not a single people as portrayed in the Exile-era propaganda (oops, I mean the Old Testament) but an amalgamated group of Semites who simply had a religious code to divide them from other people, that passage is racist as fuck. It basically says to attack people who marry outside the race!

(Oops, my mistake, I shouldn't have said "people"... I meant to say "women". It's important to speak in Biblically-accurate terms.)

RS76, you are correct. This was primarily an example of xenophobia with a little misogyny thrown in.

There is an interesting sequel to this episode in Nehemiah. Despite his slapping and hair-pulling, he was unable to eradicate the evil of mixed marriages in Judah. Now, there was a second wave of Babylonian returnees and their story is told in Ezra. Despite the fact that the events narrated in Ezra follow that in Nehemiah, in the Bible, the book of Ezra comes before Nehemiah. Go figure. In any case, Ezra, too, is disturbed by all the foreign women he sees in Judah and this is what he says in Ezra 10: 10-11: “You have broken faith and married foreign women, and so increased the guilt of Israel. Now then make confession to the LORD, the God of your fathers and do his will. Separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.

The people agree but raise some objections in v. 12-13, "It is so; we must do as you have said. But the people are many, and it is a time of heavy rain; we cannot stand in the open. Nor is this a task for one day or for two, for we have greatly transgressed in this matter."

So, the main concern of the people is that they don't want to get wet in the rain or to wait too long to hear judgment on their individual cases. No one seems to care that these "foreign" women and their half-breed children, so far from home, were to "be put away". As long as Ezra and YHWH are pleased, these folks were expendable. In the end it took about two months for the appointed judges to examine each man who had married a foreign wife, but Ezra does not say what happened to these unfortunate women and their children. The mind boggles at the possibilities.

Doc

The whole "foreign wife" thing is so ironic. They married their Canaanite religion with Babylonian religion and produced the bastard offspring of Judaism. Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(10-08-2016 03:48 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  ...
Now, there was a second wave of Babylonian returnees and their story is told in Ezra.
Separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.
...

EZREXIT?

Big Grin

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
11-08-2016, 06:34 AM
RE: Doc's anachronistic Sunday School (slightly behind the times since 2013)
(11-08-2016 05:28 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(10-08-2016 03:48 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  ...
Now, there was a second wave of Babylonian returnees and their story is told in Ezra.
Separate yourselves from the peoples of the land and from the foreign wives.
...

EZREXIT?

Big Grin

Sic dixit DLJ!

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: