Doc's mephitic Sunday School (silent but deadly since 2013)
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19-01-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: Doc's schismatic Sunday School (splitting hairs since 2013)
(18-01-2017 03:03 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(17-01-2017 12:02 PM)Dom Wrote:  Not many things leave me speechless. This does. Unsure

Dom, if that left you speechless, what will you think of the following?:

Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?"

He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?"

He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Narrated by Abu Said Al-Khudri, Sahih Bukari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301.

Over the last few months I have become quite adept at translating Islamic texts. And modernising them.

By that, I mean that there's a game the girls here enjoy where they get me to give voice overs to whatever badly-acted drama they're watching... the audio is foreign to me and so are the subtitles ... I give voice to the subtexts. E.g. two guys sitting by the river, drinking; one slightly older than the other; the older dressed conservatively; the younger is more handsome and presumably the hero of the story; music is dramatic, almost sinister and tension is obviously building. Presumably they're talking about love, betrayal etc. but I interpret it as displeasure about having to drink using a curly straw, refusal to wear a pink shirt and exclamations of "I'm not GAY!!"

So let me have a go at updating the above Hadith which is clearly a misinterpretation of the original conversation:

Allah's Apostle wandered down to the oasis (the docks).
"Hello ladies, you're looking hot as hell this evening."
"I bet you say that to all the girls" they giggled, coquettishly.
"Oh, you are bad, bad girls" he said with a wink and added as though in a Jane Austin novel, "I do declare, even a vicar of renown could be sorely tempted by your wanton ways!"
They reply, "Are you saying that you're not man enough for us?"
He smiled and said, "Silly girls, you know full well that I could take on any two of you and still have strength for more. Any time."
"Any time?", they chided.
"Well OK, not when it's your period. I draw a line in the sand with that."

Wink

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19-01-2017, 09:15 AM
RE: Doc's schismatic Sunday School (splitting hairs since 2013)
(19-01-2017 07:39 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ...there's a game the girls here enjoy...

Wink

Does DLJ stand for Don L. Juan, by any chance?

Doc
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19-01-2017, 10:57 AM
RE: Doc's schismatic Sunday School (splitting hairs since 2013)
(19-01-2017 07:17 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(18-01-2017 09:21 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Another question: What "job" was 'Ammar sent out on where he became Junub and why was his first thought to find water and when that didn't work, to roll in the dirt? Wasn't the "job" over and that may have been why he was Junnub?

OK. It might help to clarify what the Hadith is. It is a collection of oral traditions relating to sayings and practices of Mohammad that act as a guide for how Muslims should conduct their lives. The Sahih Bukhari is one of six Hadiths comprised of several thousand traditions (many of them duplicates). It was complied by Muhammad al-Bukhari in the 9th century. It supposedly preserves traditions from the prophet himself or from those intimately connected with him.

The individual traditions relate to practices or sayings of the prophet and often refer to situations (like 'Ammar's "job") which are seldom clarified. Basically, the point to be made is WWMD, (What Would Mohammad Do?).

Doc

I know what the Hadith is. It is just that it strikes me as a bit strange that Mo would send this guy on a "job" and somehow he is stricken with post-coital dick. That is just really weird. Not to say that there aren't parts in the Quran that are just as perplexing.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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19-01-2017, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2017 01:23 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: Doc's schismatic Sunday School (splitting hairs since 2013)
(19-01-2017 10:57 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(19-01-2017 07:17 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  OK. It might help to clarify what the Hadith is. It is a collection of oral traditions relating to sayings and practices of Mohammad that act as a guide for how Muslims should conduct their lives. The Sahih Bukhari is one of six Hadiths comprised of several thousand traditions (many of them duplicates). It was complied by Muhammad al-Bukhari in the 9th century. It supposedly preserves traditions from the prophet himself or from those intimately connected with him.

The individual traditions relate to practices or sayings of the prophet and often refer to situations (like 'Ammar's "job") which are seldom clarified. Basically, the point to be made is WWMD, (What Would Mohammad Do?).

Doc

I know what the Hadith is. It is just that it strikes me as a bit strange that Mo would send this guy on a "job" and somehow he is stricken with post-coital dick. That is just really weird. Not to say that there aren't parts in the Quran that are just as perplexing.

Well, "Junub" was apprently a favorite topic in the Hadith. Here's another example (just one of many):

"The Prophet* and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods."

Narrated by Aisha, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298.

* - Likely a transciption error for Pervert.

Doc
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19-01-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: Doc's schismatic Sunday School (splitting hairs since 2013)
(19-01-2017 11:34 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(19-01-2017 10:57 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I know what the Hadith is. It is just that it strikes me as a bit strange that Mo would send this guy on a "job" and somehow he is stricken with post-coital dick. That is just really weird. Not to say that there aren't parts in the Quran that are just as perplexing.

Well, "Junub" was apprently a favorite topic in the Hadith. Here's another example (just one of many):

"The Prophet* and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods."

Narrated by Aisha, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298.

* - Likely a transciption error for Pervert.

Doc

Laugh out load I am assuming Mo and his bottom are the Muslim equivalent of David and Jonathan.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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20-01-2017, 12:08 AM
RE: Doc's astigmatic Sunday School (I can see clearly now the brain is gone)
(19-01-2017 01:45 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(19-01-2017 11:34 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Well, "Junub" was apprently a favorite topic in the Hadith. Here's another example (just one of many):

"The Prophet* and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods."

Narrated by Aisha, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298.

* - Likely a transciption error for Pervert.

Doc

Laugh out load I am assuming Mo and his bottom are the Muslim equivalent of David and Jonathan.

Aisha was his child-wife IIRC.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-01-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: Doc's Patriotic Sunday School (thus saith the Lord, Patriots over Falcons, 28-25)
So, I recently read the book 3 Maccabees in the Orthodox Bible. I was aware of 1 & 2 Maccabees in the Apocrypha, but had never read 3 Maccabees before. There's also a 4 and 5 Maccabees. Haven't got to them yet.

3 Maccabees is a very interesting book. It doesn't have anything to do with the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucid empire, but tells the story of Ptolemy Philopater IV, a descendant of the Seleucid emperors. On a visit to Jerusalem, he intensely desired to enter the Holy of Holies in the Temple but was staunchly opposed by the priests and people. He persisted in his purpose but at the threshold of the temple, he was struck by God by a fit or paralysis and was forced to withdraw. In revenge for this humiliation he orders all the Jews in his empire to be gathered together in the hippodrome at Schedia and there they were to be killed publicly for the entertainment of the masses.

However, God foiled his plan by having the scribes run out of paper and ink while registering all the Jews. Baffled by this impediment, Ptolemy was forced to let the Jews go. Apparently, they did not have a Dunder-Mifflin branch in Schedia.

Truly, God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform.

Doc
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30-01-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: Doc's Patriotic Sunday School (thus saith the Lord, Patriots over Falcons, 28-25)
(30-01-2017 09:41 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  So, I recently read the book 3 Maccabees in the Orthodox Bible. I was aware of 1 & 2 Maccabees in the Apocrypha, but had never read 3 Maccabees before. There's also a 4 and 5 Maccabees. Haven't got to them yet.

3 Maccabees is a very interesting book. It doesn't have anything to do with the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucid empire, but tells the story of Ptolemy Philopater IV, a descendant of the Seleucid emperors. On a visit to Jerusalem, he intensely desired to enter the Holy of Holies in the Temple but was staunchly opposed by the priests and people. He persisted in his purpose but at the threshold of the temple, he was struck by God by a fit or paralysis and was forced to withdraw. In revenge for this humiliation he orders all the Jews in his empire to be gathered together in the hippodrome at Schedia and there they were to be killed publicly for the entertainment of the masses.

However, God foiled his plan by having the scribes run out of paper and ink while registering all the Jews. Baffled by this impediment, Ptolemy was forced to let the Jews go. Apparently, they did not have a Dunder-Mifflin branch in Schedia.

Truly, God works in mysterious ways his wonders to perform.

Doc
Fascinating. Funny how the miraculous never happens in the present, always in the distant past. Of course it didn't happen then, either, but people are more willing (or have been, historically) to credit incredible stories so long as they are safely and firmly in the ancient world. As if the ancient world somehow operated under different rules.

This is not strictly a theist idea either, it is a way of romanticizing and mythologizing long-forgotten ages past. Tolkien did it, even overtly describing a connection between the real events and the fanciful ones: "history became legend, and legend became myth." But the implication there is not that history was corrupted through embellishment, but that it was diluted and parts of it forgotten, that the actual history was even more fantastic than the mythos. And this is why LOTR is so popular, it imagines the sort of fantastical past that we want.

Humans seem to have a strong desire for the old days to be the good old days ... when all they actually were, were the BAD old days, like today only even more, not less, constrained. The only "magic" is technology.
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31-01-2017, 12:22 AM
RE: Doc's Patriotic Sunday School (thus saith the Lord, Patriots over Falcons, 28-25)
(30-01-2017 10:48 AM)mordant Wrote:  Humans seem to have a strong desire for the old days to be the good old days ... when all they actually were, were the BAD old days, like today only even more, not less, constrained. The only "magic" is technology.

Tolkein's work is close to Saxon myth-systems, themselves descended from Northern European stories. Those blokes really did have a situation where knowledge had been lost and the "ancients" - the Romans - were much more technologically advanced. Permanently implanted in ye olde English psyche the idea that the old fuckers were ye wise fuckers.

It comes about because the scientific method was never really spelled out back in the day. A method to get knowledge where one tested ones ideas by trying to disprove them - somewhat counter-intuitive. Hence cults flourish. And the knowledge that people did have was held in great esteem 'cos no one really knew a method of getting it back if it was forgotten. This is kinda my paraphrasing of some ideas I've come across from a variety of sources, so do by all means take it with a grain of salt.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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31-01-2017, 09:33 AM
RE: Doc's Patriotic Sunday School (thus saith the Lord, Patriots over Falcons, 28-25)
(30-01-2017 10:48 AM)mordant Wrote:  Fascinating. Funny how the miraculous never happens in the present, always in the distant past. Of course it didn't happen then, either...

Mordant, what are you talking about? Of course miracles happened back then. 3 Maccabees is full of miracles. See, after Ptolemy Philopater was disappointed in his efforts to kill all the Jews, he came up with a new plan. He told his shief steward, Hermon to gather together 500 (!) of his war elephants, get them drugged with frankincense and drunk with wine and to set them loose in the hippodrome where they would trample the helpless Jews to death. Unfortunately for the king, God foiled his plan on three successive nights:

1. On the first day, God sent a deep sleep on Ptolemy, so that he overslept and missed the planned festivities, so he rescheduled the massacre for the next day.

2. On the second day, God sent a spell of confusion and forgetfulness on the king, so that when Hermon came to remind him of the massacre, he threatened to set the elephants loose on Hermon and his family.

3. On the third day, the king was determined to follow through with his threat, no matter what, but was foiled by two angels sent by God who frightened the elephants so much that they turned on Ptolemy's army and trampled them to death.

You know, it just strikes me as odd that God picks such elaborate schemes to achieve his goals. Why not just strike Ptolemy and his army dead with a snap of his fingers in the first place? Why all the Rube Goldberg devices? It's like watching Wile E. Coyote trying to trap the Roadrunner.

Doc
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