Doc's onomatopeic Sunday School (wah! wah! wah! It's my thread! I pick the name)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 9 Votes - 4.22 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-04-2013, 06:22 AM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Doc: Let's move on to question number 2 which asked, “Name at least three of Jesus's four brothers and explain how this is compatible with the Roman Catholic theory of Mary's perpetual virginity.”
The answer is NOT Larry, Curly and Moe (looking disapprovingly at Cardinal Smurf). I don’t believe those are even Semitic names. According to Matt. 13:55, Jesus had 4 brothers named James, Joseph, Simon and Judas and at least 2 unnamed sisters.

Cardinal Smurf: What about the issue of Mary's virginity?

Doc: Well, according to the Protoevangelium of James 20: 1-4, the infant Jesus was responsible for the cure of Salome, a Hebrew woman in attendance upon Mary at her delivery. Her disbelief at the midwife's statement that Mary was delivered of a child despite being a virgin led to her insisting upon performing a pelvic examination on Mary to confirm the fact. For this act of impiety, the offending hand was in danger of falling off as if by fire. Salome was told by an angel to hold the baby Jesus; upon doing so, she was cured. This proves that Mary remained a virgin even after delivery. Here’s the portion (Joseph is speaking):

"I saw a woman coming down from the hill-country, and she said to me: O man, whither are you going? And I said: I am seeking an Hebrew midwife. And she answered and said unto me: Are you of Israel? And I said to her: Yes. And she said: And who is it that is bringing forth in the cave? And I said: A woman betrothed to me. And she said to me: Is she not your wife? And I said to her: It is Mary that was reared in the temple of the Lord, and I obtained her by lot as my wife. And yet she is not my wife, but has conceived of the Holy Spirit.

And the midwife said to him: Is this true? And Joseph said to her: Come and see. And the midwife went away with him. And they stood in the place of the cave, and behold a luminous cloud overshadowed the cave. And the midwife said: My soul has been magnified this day, because my eyes have seen strange things- because salvation has been brought forth to Israel. And immediately the cloud disappeared out of the cave, and a great light shone in the cave, so that the eyes could not bear it. And in a little that light gradually decreased, until the infant appeared, and went and took the breast from His mother Mary. And the midwife cried out, and said: This is a great day to me, because I have seen this strange sight. And the midwife went forth out of the cave, and Salome met her. And she said to her: Salome, Salome, I have a strange sight to relate to you: A VIRGIN HAS BROUGHT FORTH- a thing which her nature admits not of. Then said Salome: AS THE LORD MY GOD LIVES, UNLESS I THRUST IN MY FINGER, AND SEARCH THE PARTS, I WILL NOT BELIEVE THAT A VIRGIN HAS BROUGHT FORTH.

And the midwife went in, and said to Mary: Show yourself; for no small controversy has arisen about you. AND SALOME PUT IN HER FINGER, AND CRIED OUT, AND SAID: WOE IS ME FOR MINE INIQUITY AND MINE UNBELIEF, BECAUSE I HAVE TEMPTED THE LIVING GOD; AND, BEHOLD, MY HAND IS DROPPING OFF AS IF BURNED WITH FIRE. And she bent her knees before the Lord, saying: O God of my fathers, remember that I am the seed of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob; do not make a show of me to the sons of Israel, but restore me to the poor; for You know, O Lord, that in Your name I have performed my services, and that I have received my reward at Your hand. And, behold, an angel of the Lord stood by her, saying to her: Salome, Salome, the Lord has heard you. PUT YOUR HAND TO THE INFANT, AND CARRY IT, AND YOU WILL HAVE SAFETY AND JOY. And Salome went and carried it, saying: I will worship Him, because a great King has been born to Israel. AND, BEHOLD, SALOME WAS IMMEDIATELY CURED, and she went forth out of the cave justified. And behold a voice saying: Salome, Salome, tell not the strange things you have seen, until the child has come into Jerusalem."

See, class? With God ALL things are possible! If Mary could remain a virgin after delivering Jesus, she certainly could have remained one after delivering at least 6 other of his siblings.

Cardinal Smurf: But you're quoting from a pseudo-gospel!

Doc: It was scripture for somebody! Besides, the Catholic Church relies on statements like these to maintain its doctrines.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes docskeptic's post
06-04-2013, 06:07 PM
DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
My bad: Lari, Q'arli, Mosheh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Cardinal Smurf's post
06-04-2013, 09:10 PM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 05:59 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Doc, searching for some aspirin, substitutes instead a big swig from his emergency supply of "communion wine": Lari, Q'arli, Mosheh, eh? Can't say I've heard of them, either. Perhaps they were Jesus's cousins?

(Taking another big swig) Interestingly, many of Jesus's inner circle came from his mother's side. John the Baptist was his second or third cousin. James and John, his disciples, were his first cousins (their mother Salome was Mary's sister).

(Big swig) Jesus's brothers James and Jude (hic!) were also early followers. Two of Jude's grandsons were prominent in the early church. They had been poor farmers who were arrested by the emperor Domitian, interrogated and subsequently released as being of no importance. During thier interrogation, they confessed to being descendants of Jesus but said that his kingdom was a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one. For this steadfastness they were lauded in the infant church. Jude's great-grandson, Judah Kyriakos was the last Jewish bishop of Jeru... (haec!) Jerushalem.

Cardinal Smurf: What about his father' side?

Doc (big swig): Well, hish father'sh brother Clopas, hish wife Mary and their son Simon were also prominent in the early church.

Cardinal Smurf: But that's frank nepotism!

Doc, starting to slide gracelessly to the floor: (hoc!) Who... who ish thish Frank?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-04-2013, 09:28 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 10:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(03-04-2013 08:32 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Doc: Kids, your attention, please. I must say I was very disappointed with your performances on yesterday's test. I don't believe there was a single student with a perfect score. For example, TheLogicalAthiest says the answer to question 3 about the exceeding high mountain is "Mountain Dew", whereas the correct answer is "I don't know". "Mountain Dew", indeed! I don't believe there is even such a mountain.

Anyway, today, we are going to learn about the gospel of Matthew and prophecy. You see, boys and girls, Matthew quotes the Old Testament many times to prove that by fulfilling prophecy Jesus was indeed the Messiah.

For example, Matthew quotes Zechariah during Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Zechariah 9:9 says, "Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey." How many animals do you think were involved, boys and girls?

All: One!

Doc: That's right! You see, Zechariah was using an old Hebrew poetic trick of parallel phrasing to express the same idea or object. However to prove that Jesus was indeed the Christ, Matthew says that he literally fulfilled this prophecy. Matthew 21: 4-7 says: "The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. They brought the donkey and the colt, placed their cloaks on them, and Jesus sat on them".

Isn't that amazing, boys and girls? Jesus rode on two animals simultaneously! Even more amazing, one was smaller than the other! How do you think he achieved this feat of riding, children, and should we not think of this as an unrecognized miracle? And what should we call this miracle? On the grounds that anything Jesus sat on may be considered holy, I was going to humbly suggest "The Miracle of the Holy Ass", but I am open to suggestions.

Doc

Kid in the back, raising hand ....
um Doc, ole Matt wan't too good at quoting prophets was he ?
The idea in the study/practice of Midrash, that texts had secret "peshers" or secret meanings was a relatively new development which the Apocalyptic movement used to validate their claims. So it's not suprising they were looking for "fortune telling" lines in the old texts. In fact that was never the function of a prophet, (telling of future events). Leviticus forbade it. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
In any case ole Matty even got his quote wrong at least once :
Matthew 27:9-10. He says he's quoting Jeremiah. In fact it's a quotation on Zechariah 11:3.
Carry on.
Drinking Beverage

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
07-04-2013, 06:06 AM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(06-04-2013 09:28 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 08:32 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Doc: Kids, your attention, please. I must say I was very disappointed with your performances on yesterday's test. I don't believe there was a single student with a perfect score. For example, TheLogicalAthiest says the answer to question 3 about the exceeding high mountain is "Mountain Dew", whereas the correct answer is "I don't know". "Mountain Dew", indeed! I don't believe there is even such a mountain.

Anyway, today, we are going to learn about the gospel of Matthew and prophecy. You see, boys and girls, Matthew quotes the Old Testament many times to prove that by fulfilling prophecy Jesus was indeed the Messiah.

For example, Matthew quotes Zechariah during Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Zechariah 9:9 says, "Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey." How many animals do you think were involved, boys and girls?

All: One!

Doc: That's right! You see, Zechariah was using an old Hebrew poetic trick of parallel phrasing to express the same idea or object. However to prove that Jesus was indeed the Christ, Matthew says that he literally fulfilled this prophecy. Matthew 21: 4-7 says: "The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. They brought the donkey and the colt, placed their cloaks on them, and Jesus sat on them".

Isn't that amazing, boys and girls? Jesus rode on two animals simultaneously! Even more amazing, one was smaller than the other! How do you think he achieved this feat of riding, children, and should we not think of this as an unrecognized miracle? And what should we call this miracle? On the grounds that anything Jesus sat on may be considered holy, I was going to humbly suggest "The Miracle of the Holy Ass", but I am open to suggestions.

Doc

Kid in the back, raising hand ....
um Doc, ole Matt wan't too good at quoting prophets was he ?
The idea in the study/practice of Midrash, that texts had secret "peshers" or secret meanings was a relatively new development which the Apocalyptic movement used to validate their claims. So it's not suprising they were looking for "fortune telling" lines in the old texts. In fact that was never the function of a prophet, (telling of future events). Leviticus forbade it. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
In any case ole Matty even got his quote wrong at least once :
Matthew 27:9-10. He says he's quoting Jeremiah. In fact it's a quotation on Zechariah 11:3.
Carry on.
Drinking Beverage

Doc (condescendingly): Ah, yes. You see, there's a very simple solution. Scholars think that Matthew MEANT to say Jeremiah because there are a couple of passages in that book that talk about buying a field with blood money and some pieces of silver, specifically Jeremiah 19:1-13 and 32:6-9.

Bucky Ball: But I read those passages! They have nothing whatsoever to do with blood money and even the price quoted is wrong. Jeremiah mentions 17 pieces of silver rather than 30. Zechariah is a much better fit for the prophecy. Isn't it far more likely, that Matthew made a mistake because he did not have a modern Bible or commentary like we do and could not find or forgot where the original passage was? Your scholars do not seem to have heard of Occam's razor.

Doc: Whose what, now?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes docskeptic's post
07-04-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(05-04-2013 12:04 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  ...
3= 42. Answer is wrong because we still don't know the question. When we do it will become right.
...

DLJ: (passing note in class to the Cardinal)
FYI, the question was revealed in the scrabble pieces in at the end of the radio series and in the book The Restaurant at the End of the Universe... "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2013, 09:01 AM
DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(07-04-2013 08:23 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 12:04 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  ...
3= 42. Answer is wrong because we still don't know the question. When we do it will become right.
...

DLJ: (passing note in class to the Cardinal)
FYI, the question was revealed in the scrabble pieces in at the end of the radio series and in the book The Restaurant at the End of the Universe... "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

CS (discreetly passes response back to DLJ):

You and I know that. I was testing the teacher.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cardinal Smurf's post
07-04-2013, 11:01 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 11:05 AM by docskeptic.)
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(07-04-2013 09:01 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 08:23 AM)DLJ Wrote:  DLJ: (passing note in class to the Cardinal)
FYI, the question was revealed in the scrabble pieces in at the end of the radio series and in the book The Restaurant at the End of the Universe... "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

CS (discreetly passes response back to DLJ):

You and I know that. I was testing the teacher.

Doc, gingerly placing an ice-pack on his aching head, wonders if he has heard right: Look, I said earlier I wasn't looking for the answer to Life, the universe and everything. Besides, 6 multiplied by 9 is 54. But, don't panic. Let's look at the questions again.

3. Add up all the figures in Ezra 2:1-64 and explain why your answer is wrong compared to the Bible's answer.
4. Ditto for Nehemiah 7:1-66.

Both Ezra and Nehemiah enumerate the Jews who returned to Israel from Babylonian exile. Ezra says that 49,897 people returned, while Nehemiah says that 49,942 did so. These are the correct answers.

DLJ: But when I read the chapters and add up the numbers given, I get 29,818 for Ezra and 31,089 for Nehemiah. Aren't these clear cases of errors in the Bible where simple addition mistakes are taken as Holy Writ?

Doc: 'course not. There are NO errors in the Bible. As an old professor of mine said, "The important thing is not to count the people but to realize that these people counted"! Ha, ha!

DLJ (not amused): I see. The book of Esdras also says that the numbers above did NOT include children. How, then, were over 50,000 people transported more than 500 miles across the desert from Babylon back to Israel?

Doc (sotto voce): Looks like I picked a bad day to quit drinking.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
Do women and slaves count as people or possessions?

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
07-04-2013, 11:32 AM
RE: DOC'S HOLISTIC SUNDAY SCHOOL (WHERE WE TEACH THE WHOLE BIBLE)
(07-04-2013 11:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Do women and slaves count as people or possessions?

Yes, and also wives. Biblical marriage, doncha know. Yeah Biblical marriage. God defineds marriage as between one ..... man .... and .... one .... oh .... never mind.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: