Does America Still Fear Communism?
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29-09-2012, 06:45 PM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
Quote:You may point to something I've missed; but if that is your conclusion, that only shows that you don't understand logic or argument.

lolwut?

You're the one typing:
Quote:That's all he needed to do. Most intelligent, rational people tend to think that stealing is immoral.

You are obviously the one not getting the point of the argument into your thick skull if you think that the argument is that stealing is immoral because I don't believe myself or Logica believe that stealing is a moral act (in most circumstances). The argument is that it's not stealing in the first you!

So if anyone needs to "try again" it is you sir.

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29-09-2012, 07:20 PM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(29-09-2012 06:45 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  You are obviously the one not getting the point of the argument into your thick skull if you think that the argument is that stealing is immoral because I don't believe myself or Logica believe that stealing is a moral act (in most circumstances). The argument is that it's not stealing in the first you!

So if anyone needs to "try again" it is you sir.

Are you suggesting that I assume that you're completely incompetent, as opposed to just assuming you're not very intelligent?

You could dig a bigger hole, keep going.

All I suggested was that you don't have an argument against the guys position. Provide an argument, or shut the fuck up. It's that simple.

You came demanding an argument from someone, calling him ignorant and ridiculous, when you can't even form a valid argument against his position. Does the word hypocritical mean anything to you?

Quote:The argument is that it's not stealing in the first you!

Thanks for proving me right.

I would explain it to you, but I don't have certification in early childhood education.

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29-09-2012, 08:07 PM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(29-09-2012 07:20 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(29-09-2012 06:45 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  You are obviously the one not getting the point of the argument into your thick skull if you think that the argument is that stealing is immoral because I don't believe myself or Logica believe that stealing is a moral act (in most circumstances). The argument is that it's not stealing in the first you!

So if anyone needs to "try again" it is you sir.

Are you suggesting that I assume that you're completely incompetent, as opposed to just assuming you're not very intelligent?

You could dig a bigger hole, keep going.

All I suggested was that you don't have an argument against the guys position. Provide an argument, or shut the fuck up. It's that simple.

You came demanding an argument from someone, calling him ignorant and ridiculous, when you can't even form a valid argument against his position. Does the word hypocritical mean anything to you?

Quote:The argument is that it's not stealing in the first you!

Thanks for proving me right.

I would explain it to you, but I don't have certification in early childhood education.

In a democratic society, taxation is not stealing, it is a social agreement.

If you don't like the agreement, work to elect representatives with whom you agree.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-09-2012, 08:09 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 08:14 PM by earmuffs.)
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
Quote:All I suggested was that you don't have an argument against the guys position.

For the fourth time post 68 and 69.

Quote:Thanks for proving me right.

Firstly, meant to say place not you.
Second how does that in any way prove you right? You were saying that we were wrong because stealing is immoral but we were never saying it wasn't immoral we were saying, like I said, that it wasn't stealing in the first place.

You sir don't even know what the fuck we are arguing about, if you are going to jump into something then it is highly advisable that you actually read what the conversation is about. And in failing to do so, stay the fuck out.

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29-09-2012, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 09:17 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(29-09-2012 08:09 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  For the fourth time post 68 and 69.

I already addressed that. I told you if I was missing a part of your argument, specifically a conclusion and not part of the quote, to point it out.

What was part of the quote wasn't a valid argument. It might have addressed why something was fair or more practical, but that wouldn't address the issue of morality.


Quote:Firstly, meant to say place not you.
Second how does that in any way prove you right? You were saying that we were wrong because stealing is immoral but we were never saying it wasn't immoral we were saying, like I said, that it wasn't stealing in the first place.

You sir don't even know what the fuck we are arguing about, if you are going to jump into something then it is highly advisable that you actually read what the conversation is about. And in failing to do so, stay the fuck out.

That's not what I was saying, and like I said, I'm not going to explain it. I actually explained it previously, so I'm just not explaining it again.

I was just trying to fuck with you to see if you'd eventually try to argue against the point of view. You felt you've already argued against it, so at this point, there is really no point in me continuing.

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29-09-2012, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 09:23 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(29-09-2012 08:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  In a democratic society, taxation is not stealing, it is a social agreement.

If you don't like the agreement, work to elect representatives with whom you agree.

You would have to reshape the argument by adding to it. If someone doesn't agree to the "social agreement", that ends that argument until you have explained why it wouldn't be immoral, or stealing, regardless of whether or not a person agreed.

edit: Just thought I'd add, I do pretty much agree with what you're saying.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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30-09-2012, 01:22 AM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(29-09-2012 06:23 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  That's all he needed to do. Most intelligent, rational people tend to think that stealing is immoral.

He has yet to demonstrate to me that it is stealing.

(29-09-2012 06:23 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  Fair is irrelevant. Helpful is irrelevant. And if you believe that you have shown it to not be immoral, then No. Sorry, try again.

The fact that it is fair and beneficial to the people is relevant. But, again, he has yet to demonstrate the immorality of income tax.

(29-09-2012 06:23 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  What that would say about you if you actually thought that it was true. For his comments (on taxation), I'm actually aware of some people, he might even be aware of some credible people, who are in agreement. As for your comments Unsure. Even the people supporting Todd Akin would have to distance themselves from a comment like the one you made.

Sorry that the truth hurts. You do know what ethics are, right?

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30-09-2012, 09:53 AM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(30-09-2012 01:22 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  He has yet to demonstrate to me that it is stealing.

The fact that it is fair and beneficial to the people is relevant. But, again, he has yet to demonstrate the immorality of income tax.

Sorry that the truth hurts. You do know what ethics are, right?

Well, I'm definitely not here to change the world.

See my signature.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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30-09-2012, 02:59 PM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(30-09-2012 09:53 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(30-09-2012 01:22 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  He has yet to demonstrate to me that it is stealing.

The fact that it is fair and beneficial to the people is relevant. But, again, he has yet to demonstrate the immorality of income tax.

Sorry that the truth hurts. You do know what ethics are, right?

Well, I'm definitely not here to change the world.

See my signature.

Good thing I am foolishly wise. Drinking Beverage

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30-09-2012, 03:51 PM
RE: Does America Still Fear Communism?
(28-09-2012 08:34 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Considering slavery in the US resulted in the civil war which in turn resulted in the greatest loss of America life.. I'd say that slavery is not very profitable at all.

Because slavery can cause the loss of life, and warfare, does not not mean it can't also be profitable. The American Civil War was an avoidable war. How many civilizations profited from slavery in which is didn't cause a war? Virtually all of them. Furthermore, you have failed to show that even in America that the cost of the Civil War outweighed the profits of slavery. If you don't think it is profitable (which is a crazy notion) than you will have to show me otherwise. You think people have been enslaved century after century because other people are evil enough to make others suffer at their own expense for the sake of making other suffer. No, the answer is profits. Cheap labor=more product at less expense=more profit. The product is not sold soley to their fellow countrymen, but also abroad, bringing more treasure into a nation. It is a good idea, economical, to own slaves. The problem with slavery is its morality.

earmuffs Wrote:After you kicked the British out there wasn't a lot the government did/could do.
They didn't need to maintain half the roads they do today. They didn't have to fund half the police force, half the fire fighters, half the army. Hell it would have been a time when rail was just being introduced let alone the system they have today.

That was a very very different time. That was a time of everyone did their own thing, everything was sourced locally, you built your own home, you grew a veggy garden etc.. The government did shit all.
As technology grew and economies grew, basically in a nut shell, the Industrial Revolution, shit changed. Government now needed to do a lot more. Street lights for example.

You can't compare a system of government from 200 years ago today when times have not just changed since then but times have changed again and again since then. This isn't 200BC where progress was slllloooooww, this is 1800's, 1900's, 2000's. This is the most busy, radical changing time in human history.

I will repeat myself once again because you obviously didn't get it. INFRASTRUCTURE IS NOT PAID FOR BY DIRECT TAXES IN AMERICA.
Roads, bridges, railroads, powerlines, internet services, water, etc. It is done privately, or paid for with indirect taxes. The same for our police forces, firefighters, and emergency forces. There are some federal government agencies that aren't paid for with local taxes, but even those are paid for with indirect taxes, and almost all of those are inefficient, and too large. Most states also have a separate income tax, but it too can easily be abolished, as it does not exist in all states. Those states also have a higher sales tax, using the same model for their state as I have advocated be done nationally.

As for the military, like the other federal agencies, it is bloated, and ineffecient. We readily go to war without the proper authority, just because we can. The budget of our military is larger that the next 20 largest combined. That far exceeds what is necessary to defend our country, it is a military designed to be one of aggression instead of defense. Not only that, but we are expected by to act as the policemen of the world because of our ridiculously large budget, our funding for our entangling alliances such as the UN and NATO far exceeds that of our allies. We provide the primary defense forces for other countries as well. Japan, South Korea, Kuwait, Djibouti, and many others are dependent of our money collected immorally. Why should I have to pay for that? I shouldn't. Without an nearly infinite supply of money coming towards them the government would have to make more responsible choices with how they spend their money. LESS MONEY FOR OUR MILITARY IS A GOOD THING.If we cut out forces in half we would have ample money to defend our nation, which is the supposed purpose of our military.

earmuffs Wrote:What do you have to hide?
There are several reasons why the government does it.
Primarily for census purposes. Gathering data on a countries population such as ethnicity, poor/middle class/rich, religion etc... help greatly in a government making decisions for that population.
I mean you say in the same post 13% of America is black, how do you think they came up with that number? guess? no, data collection.

Oh and seriously, you're not that special that they are going to use that information against you. They collect literally hundreds of millions of people's data, get over yourself.


There is more reasons to want to remain private other than me having things to hide. This is why search warrants are necessary. Just because I don't want the police to break into my home and rummage through my belongings doesn't mean that I am committing crimes, it just means I value my privacy. You question is typical of Statists. If you want information regarding statistics, then you could easily collect that data voluntarily, and extrapolate from the incomplete date, and have that information collected anonymously. I would wonder what decision the government needed that data for anyhow. I am not requesting anything from them, I don't need universal healthcare, or social security, or anything of the sort. I am responsible for myself, and my family. I don't need a Nanny State to provide for me. Simply wanting the data is not a justification for taking it by force.



earmuffs Wrote:You are so ignorant of how the world works, even though earlier in this thread you claimed you knew exactly how the world works.

I said I had a better understanding of the economy than you, and I stand by my statement.

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