Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
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18-06-2013, 06:08 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 05:48 PM)David Lee Wrote:  I'm mostly harmless.

Oh, very much so.

(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  If you gather two teams to search for evidence of a flood, one of which consists of believers and the other consisting of unbelievers the evidence is going to be interpreted in two different ways in support of each position.

Ah. This must be some new meaning of the word evidence I was unaware of.

(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  If you question where the rain came from for the global deluge then 2 Peter 2:5-6 may or may not be an answer which satisfies you.
Quote:2 Peter 2:5. And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:6. And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly;
... lolwut? I'm afraid I don't see the connection (I must be one of those religiously closed-minded atheists I've heard so much about lately).

(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  If you misunderstand what the account says when it mentions kinds of animals you may wrongly think that there couldn't possibly have been enough room
So, there was enough room?

How?

(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  ... wonder where the water went you may or may not interpret a planet consisting mostly of water to be significant.
The Earth's not mostly water. Nor has it ever been.

(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  You may not be aware that the long lifespan of the Bible before the flood significantly reduced after the flood.
Right. It decreased gradually and incrementally. How? Why?

(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  River canyons beneath the ocean may not mean the same thing to you as someone else. Animal remains of a peculiar placement can be interpreted otherwise, change in climate and geographical structure may be acknowledge by science but not necessarily interpreted to support a global deluge.
I honestly can't be bothered to go into much detail. But there's a thing called science (you may have heard of it - it's the reason you've got that 'computer' thing in front of you). Learn some.

A scientific explanation of the world is abandoned when it demonstrates greater inconsistencies than a rival explanation. The Biblical flood narrative is much, much more inconsistent than the sum total of thousands of subsequent years' worth of natural history, biology, chemistry, geology, cosmology, geography, and physics.
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18-06-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 04:49 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 04:44 PM)Bjorn Wrote:  The burden of proof is on religion idiot.

Fuck religion. I loath religion. I long for the day when all religion including Atheism is completely destroyed. And don't talk to me about the burden of proof like I'm the idiot. I could shove it violently up your ass metaphorically and it wouldn't make any difference to you whatsoever.

Well, that was a reasoned and measured response. Consider

If you make the claim, you have the burden of proof.

Atheism is not a religion - why would you think it is?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-06-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 05:23 PM)yumeji Wrote:  So you're the first person to have any evidence of Noah's Art, ever? Got any awards from it? Well, we both know the answer to that, so how about you share it then, hm?

"The moon is made of cheese!"
"Prove it"
"I could but you would just dismiss it, so just believe because it totally is made of cheese!"

[Sigh] Typical atheist overestimation of evidence. Evidence is a series of speculation which may or may not conclude with a factual estimation. A man standing over a dead man in an alley holding a bloody knife can be taken as evidence without knowing that the man came upon the other after having already been stabbed, for example.

If you gather two teams to search for evidence of a flood, one of which consists of believers and the other consisting of unbelievers the evidence is going to be interpreted in two different ways in support of each position.

If you question where the rain came from for the global deluge then 2 Peter 3:5-6 may or may not be an answer which satisfies you. If you misunderstand what the account says when it mentions kinds of animals you may wrongly think that there couldn't possibly have been enough room, if wonder where the water went you may or may not interpret a planet consisting mostly of water to be significant. You may not be aware that the long lifespan of the Bible before the flood significantly reduced after the flood. River canyons beneath the ocean may not mean the same thing to you as someone else. Animal remains of a peculiar placement can be interpreted otherwise, change in climate and geographical structure may be acknowledge by science but not necessarily interpreted to support a global deluge.

It's a moot debate.

Sigh. The debate is not moot. You do not understand evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-06-2013, 07:04 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2013 07:14 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(17-06-2013 05:42 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Does anyone believe in Noah's Ark, as an actual historical event?

If you believe, please post here, because I have questions. I hope you have answers.

Could you fit 2 of every species alive on the planet right now, onto a ship as large or larger than the Titanic, AND transport those species across a span of water......without a mason jar or 2 to keep insects in so one of the anteaters doesn't eat up all the ants?
I wonder if Noah called in the Orkin man? Termite population expansion might have caused some problems Tongue
So I guess that's a no Tongue

But a story of a global deluge could have been passed around as long as Beowulf had been before someone decided to write it down! I haven't ever really looked into that.

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18-06-2013, 09:40 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 07:23 AM)David Lee Wrote:  
(17-06-2013 08:58 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Dude, go to post #3 on this thread, read the paper hyperlinked, take a few moments to watch the short video. Once that is done please provide a coherent refute of the math and the science so we can discuss it in more depth (pun intended). Or is this going to devolve into "God said it, it's in the Bible, I believe it, the end"? Drinking Beverage

Your argument is to point me to a hyperlink? You want me to do all the work for you? If you have nothing to say then say nothing is my advise to you, or else get off your lazy ass and present an argument.

You didn't read a thing and then pulled out the"lazy" card. Laughat

In fact, you've said nothing productive in this thread. You've accused a few of wanting you to do "their" work and you've called a few others an idiot. The laziness YOU are displaying is huge. You have nothing from intelligence or education to say on the subject, do you.

You might try following you're own advice "If you have nothing to say then say nothing." Drinking Beverage
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18-06-2013, 10:09 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 05:45 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 05:23 PM)yumeji Wrote:  So you're the first person to have any evidence of Noah's Art, ever? Got any awards from it? Well, we both know the answer to that, so how about you share it then, hm?

"The moon is made of cheese!"
"Prove it"
"I could but you would just dismiss it, so just believe because it totally is made of cheese!"

[Sigh] Typical atheist overestimation of evidence. Evidence is a series of speculation which may or may not conclude with a factual estimation. A man standing over a dead man in an alley holding a bloody knife can be taken as evidence without knowing that the man came upon the other after having already been stabbed, for example.

If you gather two teams to search for evidence of a flood, one of which consists of believers and the other consisting of unbelievers the evidence is going to be interpreted in two different ways in support of each position.

If you question where the rain came from for the global deluge then 2 Peter 3:5-6 may or may not be an answer which satisfies you. If you misunderstand what the account says when it mentions kinds of animals you may wrongly think that there couldn't possibly have been enough room, if wonder where the water went you may or may not interpret a planet consisting mostly of water to be significant. You may not be aware that the long lifespan of the Bible before the flood significantly reduced after the flood. River canyons beneath the ocean may not mean the same thing to you as someone else. Animal remains of a peculiar placement can be interpreted otherwise, change in climate and geographical structure may be acknowledge by science but not necessarily interpreted to support a global deluge.

It's a moot debate.


Channeling Sam Harris here...

But what evidence can one offer to someone who does not value evidence? What logical argument can one offer to someone who does not value logical arguments?

Biblical literalism on all things is not particularly mainstream except within politically conservative evangelical denominations. The Catholic church for instance accepts evolution despite the stories in Genesis giving a particular history of mankind.

What justification do you have that so many other Christians do not to think that Genesis is a literal history of the world and man? Obviously it is not evidence. So what is it?

And regarding the verse you refer to:
"But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed."

What in Zeus's name is that supposed to mean? Everything is made of water? Don't you believe in basic chemistry and atomic theory? Ohh, right, those things didn't exist in Biblical times, so Chemistry and atomic theory is obviously completely wrong.
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18-06-2013, 11:00 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
Questions for the people who believe in the noah's ark story literally.
1.how did the milions of species fit in a boat?
2. How did noah&family get exotic animals like polar bears,penguings,boa's,ect?
3. How did these exotic animals survive the temperatures? Penguings and polar bears for example.
4.how did he get the birds to join and not to fly out?
5. How did the carnivores survive?
Bring extra animals as food?
6. How did that many herbivores survive? Most herbivores tend to eat specific plants
7.how did they get a whale and other big fish in? And dont come with they could just survive the flood. They wouldnt. They would die of all the water cuz it would lower the salt content mixed in water. Come to think of it,how did they catch and transport it in the first place?
8.what did the animals eat after the flood? Most plants would have drowned ,so herbivores would have no food.
And all other animals exept birds would have drowned ,so no food for carnivores.
9.how did all these animals spread all over the world?
10.so, a small group of people found 2 of every animal species,while scientist all over the world havent discovered all species yet? Does that make sense?
11. How did so many people come out of 8 people(correct me if im wrong) in aprox. 4500 years? Lets say 80 generations.
12. If all people came from the survivers, it suggests incest. Is that morally right?
13. If it was tru incest,wouldnt all people be limb and other handicaps thanx to inbreeding?
14.if this population came from 8 people,why do we have so many 'races' of people? Indian,indonesian,chinese,african,european have different genes and traits
15. So,Noah,a guy who was drunk and slept naked,and even cursed an inocent is chosen by god to survive? Why?
I have more questions,but its 2am and i need to sleep.

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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19-06-2013, 12:36 AM
 
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 11:00 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  Questions for the people who believe in the noah's ark story literally.
1.how did the milions of species fit in a boat?
2. How did noah&family get exotic animals like polar bears,penguings,boa's,ect?
3. How did these exotic animals survive the temperatures? Penguings and polar bears for example.
4.how did he get the birds to join and not to fly out?
5. How did the carnivores survive?
Bring extra animals as food?
6. How did that many herbivores survive? Most herbivores tend to eat specific plants
7.how did they get a whale and other big fish in? And dont come with they could just survive the flood. They wouldnt. They would die of all the water cuz it would lower the salt content mixed in water. Come to think of it,how did they catch and transport it in the first place?
8.what did the animals eat after the flood? Most plants would have drowned ,so herbivores would have no food.
And all other animals exept birds would have drowned ,so no food for carnivores.
9.how did all these animals spread all over the world?
10.so, a small group of people found 2 of every animal species,while scientist all over the world havent discovered all species yet? Does that make sense?
11. How did so many people come out of 8 people(correct me if im wrong) in aprox. 4500 years? Lets say 80 generations.
12. If all people came from the survivers, it suggests incest. Is that morally right?
13. If it was tru incest,wouldnt all people be limb and other handicaps thanx to inbreeding?
14.if this population came from 8 people,why do we have so many 'races' of people? Indian,indonesian,chinese,african,european have different genes and traits
15. So,Noah,a guy who was drunk and slept naked,and even cursed an inocent is chosen by god to survive? Why?
I have more questions,but its 2am and i need to sleep.

Consider my invitation to discuss this in a more civil arena without distractions, here.
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19-06-2013, 12:39 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
No one with any knowledge of maritime engineering or biological diversify

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
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19-06-2013, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2013 01:43 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(19-06-2013 12:39 AM)PeterKA Wrote:  No one with any knowledge of maritime engineering or biological diversify

"The Bible doesn't say anything about species. We have to distinguish the difference between the scientific term species and the Biblical term kind." - The Theist, AKA David Lee. etc etc,

LOL.
(he admittedly has no actual education in anything, either Biblical or scientific)
Amazing how desperate these delusional people are to take literally ancient myths from a culture which had no word for "history", and no concept of "accurate",
and (obviously) no knowledge of the types of ancient Near Eastern literature

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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