Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
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17-06-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
Yep, exactly. I talk about this in my book, but it was too much detail to get into on this thread. Check out my book for more; my signature line has a link to several formats: Apple, Kindle, PDF.

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17-06-2013, 10:34 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
Jeez the list keeps going on back
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18-06-2013, 12:45 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2013 01:09 AM by Dark Phoenix.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(17-06-2013 08:13 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(17-06-2013 05:42 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Does anyone believe in Noah's Ark, as an actual historical event?

If you believe, please post here, because I have questions. I hope you have answers.

I certainly do believe it was an historic event. Ask your questions, I hope I can answer.

Forgive the late posting, I have a busy life outside of the forum.

When you say, you believe it was a historical event, do you mean you believe it took place exactly as written in the bible? Do you mean that you merely believe that some kind of flooding occurred perhaps for natural reasons?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

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18-06-2013, 01:02 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
DP, please don't feed the trolls. Smile

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18-06-2013, 01:19 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(17-06-2013 06:00 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Uh, no. Never did, even as a child.

Do you remember your thoughts as a child when you heard the story? I would love to hear your perspective.

What about the story made you doubt it even then?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

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18-06-2013, 01:28 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(17-06-2013 09:39 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You know, for an all powerful being who could have simply snapped his fingers and removed the offending humans, the motherfucker decided to kill 99.99% of all the animals who didn't do squat and 99.99% of all the people including the children.

What an asshole.

So many questions I should have asked about this kind of thing as a believer.

1. Why is it ok for god to be immoral, and genocidal?
2. Why did god supposedly wipe out the earth with a slow, 40 days of rain, flood? Couldn't he have just spoken a word and destroyed all of the world and its life at once, painlessly? Isn't that kinda like a cat, playing with a mouse for enjoyment, before he eats it?
3. Why did god supposedly only warn a cooky old man, named Noah, and tell him to "tell the people"? Isn't that yet another game, since he could speak to the whole world in a booming voice, announce his presence, and then warn them all in a way they might actually believe? Wouldn't he know he created us to be a little skeptical of just one old dude?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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18-06-2013, 02:55 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 01:28 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  So many questions I should have asked about this kind of thing as a believer.

1. Why is it ok for god to be immoral, and genocidal?

THOU SHALT NOT QUESTION THE LORD, FOOLISH MORTAL.

(18-06-2013 01:28 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  2. Why did god supposedly wipe out the earth with a slow, 40 days of rain, flood? Couldn't he have just spoken a word and destroyed all of the world and its life at once, painlessly? Isn't that kinda like a cat, playing with a mouse for enjoyment, before he eats it?

As has been demonstrated, the "flood" was already part of local lore, adopted by each culture as part of their moral teachings. Ya get a bunch of villagers who sacrifice their goats and get a return of a plentiful harvest season after season, they begin to assume a "fairness" in the universe. Then, of course, drought happens, or flood, or a volcano, or a plague of crocodiles, and the peeps get their noses all bent out of shape. Start shaking their fists at the sky. Start questioning the teachings of the prophet which order their society. And without science, a new prophet must arise to put a new spin on an old tale. Of course, over time, the hetmen and chiefs see the potential in these moral tales of order, and what was once a tale spun to calm the fears of the populace, becomes a dogmatic assertion to calm the fears of the ruling elite.

(18-06-2013 01:28 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  3. Why did god supposedly only warn a cooky old man, named Noah, and tell him to "tell the people"? Isn't that yet another game, since he could speak to the whole world in a booming voice, announce his presence, and then warn them all in a way they might actually believe? Wouldn't he know he created us to be a little skeptical of just one old dude?

Because there is no god, obviously. There is only prophets.

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18-06-2013, 04:33 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2013 05:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
The Epic of Gilgamesh is one of the oldest written human myths. It was originally written on clay tablets in cuneiform script. It is mostly about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE). Not about a flood. The flood is in the story, but not the central theme of the entire work. The KING in the text is datable. It was found in the "find" in the Royal Library in Ashurbanipal, thus it's general age and context is known to archaeology.

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/meso.../tab11.htm

All big floods leave large silt layers. There is no world-wide silt layer, or even a silt layer that would account for a local flood which would deposit a boat on Mt. Ararat. There IS world-wide archaeological evidence of continuous uninterrupted human habitation, including in Turkey (where Mt Ararat is), and in Israel, in Cairio, in Rome, in Athens, in Ur, for tens of thousands of years, many places far far longer, and NO evidence of any flood. There there was no large flood in the ancient Near East. There is not a shred of evidence for it. It there had been, there would be archaeological evidence for it. There is not.

Only a culture which was cognizant of shipbuilding could build a sea-worthy vessel of that size. No one in the ancient Near East was a "sea-faring culture", until the Sea Peoples came to the Levant, (the Phoenicians).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitar..._(science)

The "biblical" flood is absolutely refuted by :
1. Erosion
The patterns of erosion observed world wide absolutely refute any possible world-wide flood in the last 6000-8000 years. A global flood cannot explain geological formations where sedimentary rocks have been tilted and eroded then more sedimentary layers deposited on top, obviously needing long periods of time for these to happen. It cannot explain the erosion of valleys in sedimentary rock mountains. In another example, the flood, had it occurred, would have produced effects spread over the entire world. Erosion should be evenly distributed, yet the levels of erosion in, for example, the Alps, the Urals, the Appalachians and the Rocky Mountains are vastly different.

2 Geological dating.
Geochronology is the science of determining the absolute age of rocks, fossils, and sediments by a variety of techniques. These methods indicate that the Earth as a whole is at least 4.5 billion years old, and that the strata that were deposited gradually over many millions of years.

3. Paleontology
If the flood were responsible for fossilization, then all the animals now fossilized must have been living together on the Earth just before the flood. Based on estimates of the number of remains buried in specific sites that are known, this would mean there was a huge density of vertebrates, (2100 per acre) . That is impossible. The entire geologic record is found in many places, showing erosion and burrowing through older layers, which is impossible on a short ("flood of 150 days") timescale. Carbonate hardgrounds and fossils associated with them show that the so-called flood sediments include evidence of long breaks in deposition that are completely inconsistent with a one time flood.

4. Geochemistry
"Flood geology" cannot explain the alternation between calcite seas and aragonite seas through the Phanerozoic. The cyclical pattern of carbonate hardgrounds, calcitic and aragonitic ooids, and calcite-shelled fauna was controlled by seafloor spreading rates and the flushing of seawater through hydrothermal vents which changes its Magnesium/Calcium ratio.

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18-06-2013, 04:39 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2013 05:56 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
BTW, if I had a negative six rep, multiple accounts, walked out on multiple "debates" when I was obviously losing, known as generally insane and proven it, I would say "oh, I can't remember my password" too. Weeping

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18-06-2013, 04:47 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 04:39 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  BTW, if I had a negative six rep, multiple accounts, walked out on multiple "debates" when I was obviously loosing, known as generally insane and proven it, I would say "oh, I can't remember my password" too. Weeping

1 Why are you so hung up on the rep thingy?

2 Who are you talking about?

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