Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-06-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
The inclusion of extraneous variables is without bound. Thus, if one accepts that god spun up a flood from his magical bag of tricks in 1513 BCE, it is no great leap to assume that he also removed all trace of a flood happening after it happened... other than fossils, of course, 'cause Ol' Nick ain't got nothing on the real trickster. Tongue

I ain't buying it. If the Bible is supposed to be a real historical accounting, then there should be real historical evidence. But the evidence that does exist, in textual analysis and archaeology, indicates it was all written during the Babylonian exile, which ended in 538 BCE.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-06-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 08:40 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 07:55 AM)David Lee Wrote:  Exactly as written in the Bible.

Which part do you believe exactly as is written in the bible? The part where the bible says the flood lasted 40 days and nights, or the part where the bible says the flood lasted 150 days and nights? The part where the bible says to take 2 of each animal “unclean” and “clean” into the ark, or the part where the bible says to take 2 of each “unclean” and 7 of each “clean” animal?

Even trying to take the bible exactly as written, even with ignoring the reality of reality you can't believe exactly what to bible says and believe the other thing that the bible says differently, exactly as it says at the same time.

It's believing that 2+2=5 and 2+2=19 at the exact same time. I personally accept that 2+2=4...because that is basced in reality.

Personally I do not find the story of Noah's Ark to hold any remote possibility of truth. The bible itself is very flawed in general, so that isn't very encouraging either.

This is where I am coming from. As a small boy learning this story, I believed it wholeheartedly, because I trusted in my parents, believing that they wouldn't lie to me. I guess I wasn't very smart, because noticing all the little logistical problems that would make the story impossible to be true, was something I wasn't able to do until I was almost twenty.

What I am getting at is this. I often wonder if other people were a lot smarter than me, and figured it out the moment they heard about it. Did they realize it must be false, even as children? Why didn't I?

I am curious about the path people take from fiction to non fiction in life, and this particular story stands out to me as being blatantly false, so it makes me wonder all the more how believers, like I was, can walk around every single day and actually believe it as a fact, with all the bible details.

Even now as an Atheist, I wonder how I can approach this with believers who I know believe in the story of Noah's Ark, not as mythology, but actual fact. I was once in their shoes, and I know that I would not have been open to direct criticism, it would have offended me.

So the real question to me is, as Atheists who love truth, how do we approach this with people who have been indoctrinated by loved ones, like I was? What is the best way to open a dialogue, and make a difference?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dark Phoenix's post
18-06-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 10:12 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  So the real question to me is, as Atheists who love truth, how do we approach this with people who have been indoctrinated by loved ones, like I was? What is the best way to open a dialogue, and make a difference?

Open a breech, and load a shell... Evil_monster

Hey, that's they way they did it. Angel

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like houseofcantor's post
18-06-2013, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2013 02:43 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 10:12 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 08:40 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Which part do you believe exactly as is written in the bible? The part where the bible says the flood lasted 40 days and nights, or the part where the bible says the flood lasted 150 days and nights? The part where the bible says to take 2 of each animal “unclean” and “clean” into the ark, or the part where the bible says to take 2 of each “unclean” and 7 of each “clean” animal?

Even trying to take the bible exactly as written, even with ignoring the reality of reality you can't believe exactly what to bible says and believe the other thing that the bible says differently, exactly as it says at the same time.

It's believing that 2+2=5 and 2+2=19 at the exact same time. I personally accept that 2+2=4...because that is basced in reality.

Personally I do not find the story of Noah's Ark to hold any remote possibility of truth. The bible itself is very flawed in general, so that isn't very encouraging either.

This is where I am coming from. As a small boy learning this story, I believed it wholeheartedly, because I trusted in my parents, believing that they wouldn't lie to me. I guess I wasn't very smart, because noticing all the little logistical problems that would make the story impossible to be true, was something I wasn't able to do until I was almost twenty.

What I am getting at is this. I often wonder if other people were a lot smarter than me, and figured it out the moment they heard about it. Did they realize it must be false, even as children? Why didn't I?

I am curious about the path people take from fiction to non fiction in life, and this particular story stands out to me as being blatantly false, so it makes me wonder all the more how believers, like I was, can walk around every single day and actually believe it as a fact, with all the bible details.

Even now as an Atheist, I wonder how I can approach this with believers who I know believe in the story of Noah's Ark, not as mythology, but actual fact. I was once in their shoes, and I know that I would not have been open to direct criticism, it would have offended me.

So the real question to me is, as Atheists who love truth, how do we approach this with people who have been indoctrinated by loved ones, like I was? What is the best way to open a dialogue, and make a difference?

That's a really good question. I don't know that there is one right answer for it. Myself, though I was exposed to it as a child, I never believed, not because I was smart enough to see the holes and the impossibility of it, that I have stated before. That, I started to learn as I grew older, which only bewildered me more that people actually really believed it.

When I was a little kid, about 6 or so, I knew the idea was that it was true, but I didn't think anyone actually, really thought it was. My growth wasn't about getting away from belief, but realizing that other people actually, really did believe.

I do wonder if there was something about the way I tend to think that would have questioned the story even if my parents indoctrinated it into me, or if I'm just lucky that they hadn't, so I never got to the point of believing it. I tend to think if I did believe it I would have tried too hard to understand and make sense of it ultimately resulting in reasoning it away. I still did that even though I wasn't being forced to believe. I had always wanted to know the why and how answers, not just the what. But I also tend to think I would have reasoned it away for the same reason I never believed in Santa. My parents made more effort of convincing me that Santa was real than Noah's Ark, and Santa is something that as a child you want to believe, but still I did not. I knew obviously deer can't fly, they have no wings, elves are not real, Santa is too fat to fit down a chimney, and how would he get back out anyway, crawl up it again, there is no way he can visit that many houses, and no one lives hundreds of years. That's all I needed to know about something I would have otherwise been happy to believe.

Point being, I don’t think that in anyway made me smarter as a child then other children. It just meant I tended to think about things differently and ask different questions. And mostly was fortunate that I had parents who never really talked about religion. Any theist I’ve ever won over it has only been because they are intellectually honest, and have simple never heard our side of it. Some want the truth and are intelligent, but are never given the option of the conclusion of religion being wrong. It’s not about what you have to say, it’s about whether they are capable of hearing it or not. All you can do is share what you know, and leave it up the them to respond.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Raptor Jesus's post
18-06-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 07:52 AM)David Lee Wrote:  
(17-06-2013 09:37 PM)Diogenes of Mayberry Wrote:  Sorry to burst your bubble, David, but I believe it is you that has been spoon fed. The Epic of Gilgamesh is dated to the second millennium BCE; while the Pentateuch is dated to the first millennium. Perhaps you should take care which propaganda you are swallowing.

Experts date the epic to have been written between the 21st and the 18th centuries B.C.E., it has been handed down only fragmentarily since about 1900 B.C.E. The flood account was written in 1513 B.C.E. In fact, the epic of Gilgamesh is based mainly on a cuneiform text from the library of Ashurbanipal who reigned 668 - 627 B.C.E. in ancient Nineveh.

You are kidding I hope.
Ashurbanipal COLLECTED tablets, and put them in his royal library at Nineveh. It was NOT WRITTEN during his reign. Thanks for proving you know NOTHING about the ancient Near East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
18-06-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
So in order to believe in the "ark" myth you must do the following:
- ignore evidence that prior myths had the same story and that this story is not a copy but based on a real event
- maintain a belief in a benevolent god despite their action which killed 99.999% of all life on the planet based on the actions of some members of one species
- add some magical transportation mechanism that is never mentioned in the bible to transport all the species on the earth across climates and seas, over rivers mountain ranges to arrive at the ark all within a couple days of each other. Has to be magic because there is no way some cave fish in South America can get to anywhere else for example.
- suspend all physical constraints within the volume of the ark to house the millions of species
- suspend all physical requirements of these millions of creatures while being housed on the ark or accept that somehow food was also included within the ark
- suspend all the dangers of infection and disease while having so many creatures in such cramped quarters (BTW were there only two fleas on board or perhaps were there more since many of the animals probably carried their own populations of fleas?)
- accept incest as the basis for the re-population of humans despite current genetic knowledge
- reject the dangers of homozygosity across all species on the planet
- accept that some diety zapped into existence the massive amount of water necessary to cover all of the land on the earth (and of course zapped it away afterwards)
- accept that whilst zapping into existence and zapping away this massive amount of water that god erased all traces of such a cataclysmic event from the geological and archeological record
- assume that while god was zapping away the water and the evidence they were also magically moving all the sealife that wandered over areas that were about to be returned to land back to areas in the ocean because we don't fossil evidence of say a modern blue whale skeleton in Ohio to the best of my knowledge
- accept again some magical method of dispersal of the animals contained on the ark with god choosing some animals to go to several places while others relegated to only one place (e.g. Madagascar/Australia)
- have to be completely and utterly batshit delusional (maybe I am showing a little bias on this one)

So despite me probably missing something, I am pretty confident that I've listed most of the major requirements of believing in the ark myth.

I am not even touching upon whether dinosaurs were excluded for some cruel and vindictive reason. Maybe it was a dinosaur not a snake who tempted eve thus paving the way for god to eradicate all dinosaurs based on the actions of one. To you and I it seems a bit heavy handed but based on the bible it seems right in line with the benevolent judeo-christian god.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like devilsadvoc8's post
18-06-2013, 02:30 PM
 
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 02:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are kidding I hope.
Ashurbanipal COLLECTED tablets, and put them in his royal library at Nineveh. It was NOT WRITTEN during his reign. Thanks for proving you know NOTHING about the ancient Near East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

Try reading it again, idiot.
Quote this message in a reply
18-06-2013, 02:33 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2013 02:39 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(18-06-2013 02:30 PM)David Lee Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 02:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are kidding I hope.
Ashurbanipal COLLECTED tablets, and put them in his royal library at Nineveh. It was NOT WRITTEN during his reign. Thanks for proving you know NOTHING about the ancient Near East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal

Try reading it again, idiot.

Great.
Now all you have to do is provide references and evidence for what you assert.
BTW, good to see TheConflictedGayTheist has not changed a bit. Still such a "Christian".
Do you plan to pick up the debate threads you abandoned when you started losing ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-06-2013, 02:35 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
Personally I don't belief it.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
18-06-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: Does Anyone Believe in Noah's Ark?
(17-06-2013 05:42 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Does anyone believe in Noah's Ark, as an actual historical event?

If you believe, please post here, because I have questions. I hope you have answers.

No.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes dancefortwo's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: