Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-12-2011, 05:53 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 11:53 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 08:26 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  To the question of the post topic. I'm not sure if he fears philosophy. I have heard most of the WLC debates. He poisons the well like a champ during all his debates. He uses the same content even though he is corrected constantly. This is probably because he is following his notes without ever editing. Just going on the attitude I have seen Dawkins to have, I'd say he didn't want to talk to a wall. WLC reminds me of a wall or fence post. No matter how much you tell him something he refuses to absorb any of it (like most theists). He still uses out dated scientific data to back some of his claims (like nearly all theists). I would have to walk away from WLC too he annoys me more so than most theists.

I think the main problem of debates between WLC and atheists is that, as you say, WLC uses the exact same argument every time... and atheists are never prepared for it! There are plenty of resources on how to debate WLC properly, but I guess atheists are too busy to look them up and learn them.

The other problem is that there are college classes on apologetics. Where do atheists learn their arguments? The internet. You have to independently research the atheist opinion by reading it from your fellow atheists (at the very least God Is Not Great, The God Delusion, and The End of Faith) and hearing it from debates. There is no class for atheist studies or "atheology". And even if there were such a class, it would never become a college major (you can get a doctorate in theology).

Thanks for sharing, I watched the video and read up on what I could. Good information, though not being a cosmologist I didn't fully understand most of it. It sure makes me want to go back to school to study cosmology, but being that I am terrible with mathematics I doubt I would do very well.

Godzilla Kitten, Directed by J.J. Abrams
[Image: Kineoprojectfinished3_zps79916ea4.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kineo's post
12-12-2011, 06:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2011 06:24 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 09:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  One other point: Can you give examples of Dawkins' alleged arrogance? I suspect people react to his assured manner.
I gave a friend a Dawkins book and he said after reading only a few pages that he couldn't take Dawkins' arrogance. But he couldn't point to anything specific.

What kind of evidence can one give for arrogance? It's a subjective determination to be sure. My own "evidence," is that is how I judge the way his attitude comes across about anyone who disagrees with him. Is haughty a better term?
Also, not that it matters, but since you're asking me to justify my use of the word arrogant, I also have hearsay evidence from a close friend who studied under Dr. Gabby Dover at the University of Leicester. My friend reports that Dr. Dover and Dr. Dawkins are "fierce rivals" (her term) over the concept of the Selfish Gene. Dr. Dover wrote a book called "Dear Mr Darwin: Letters on the Evolution of Life and Human Nature," and my friend reports they have had many an unfriendly exchange on the topic. She actually gets irritated when I bring up Richard Dawkins. Being that she has a master's in genetics and a masters in evolutionary psychology, I assumed she would understand my excitement at reading his books and watching his videos. About the third time I mentioned him, she said in her lovely, cultured British accent: "That arrogant prig again? Let me get you a better reading list if you really want to learn about Evolution!"

So there you have it.
If he's offended by my use of the term, I'll happily discuss it with him and withdraw the comment if he insists. Smile

PS...she flew to England this weekend and is planning on visiting Oxford and chatting with Dr. Dover sometime this week. I asked if she would take my copy of the God Delusion to ask her professor to ask Professor Dawkins to sign it for me. She said, "That's awfully cheeky. Would you ask your mortal enemy to autograph a book for you?" I replied, "If my mortal enemy was Richard Dawkins I would. Smile )

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2011, 06:18 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2011 06:24 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, he doesn't want to be a theologian.

Ok then. He wants to be a philosopher of rational science in an area traditionally seen as theology, but he lacks the philosophical vision. Is that better?

(I mean, "set theory" in my head is you atheists saying "Get that shit off the table, shut the hell up and sit the hell down." And you are right, but it is also a naive philosophy that can do exactly what Dawkins predicts in those quotes - wipe theology right the fuck off the map. Just gonna take some work. Wink

And that ain't really about me nor my Gwynnies, but emergence.)
(12-12-2011 06:04 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  If he's offended by my use of the term, I'll happily discuss it with him and withdraw the comment if he insists. Smile

I can't see that at all. I mean, your definition and Chas' definition may differ; and perhaps parallel mine. But when I call Dawkins an "arrogant asshole;" I'm looking right here in the mirror. Goes like this:

Dawkins comes into the bar, sees me. Comes up. "You, are the arrogant asshole!" And I go, "and?" And it's the next morning, we're walking home hanging on to each other singing Wave of Reason. Wink

[Image: 10289811_592837817482059_8815379025397103823_n.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
12-12-2011, 06:48 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
I guess I should also ask you, Chas, why didn't you disagree with WLC being called arrogant? (And it's possible you used the term too, but I'm late for an appointment so I'm not looking back to see if you called WLC that), but you didn't seem to mind that I did. Smile

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2011, 07:00 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 06:48 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I guess I should also ask you, Chas, why didn't you disagree with WLC being called arrogant? (And it's possible you used the term too, but I'm late for an appointment so I'm not looking back to see if you called WLC that), but you didn't seem to mind that I did. Smile

I don't have an opinion on WLC's arrogance or humility, nor have I expressed one.

As far as Dawkins' alleged arrogance, I didn't ask for evidence, just examples.
However, it does seem to be some peoples' opinion and I really have been curious as to why they react so. I don't see it.
(12-12-2011 06:18 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, he doesn't want to be a theologian.
Ok then. He wants to be a philosopher of rational science in an area traditionally seen as theology, but he lacks the philosophical vision. Is that better?

No, actually, not better. Rational, scientific investigation and analysis of the hypothesis of the existence of God, and criticism of the Bible are not theology.

Theology is more acurately the study of the nature of God and faith.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2011, 08:30 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 07:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-12-2011 06:48 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I guess I should also ask you, Chas, why didn't you disagree with WLC being called arrogant? (And it's possible you used the term too, but I'm late for an appointment so I'm not looking back to see if you called WLC that), but you didn't seem to mind that I did. Smile

I don't have an opinion on WLC's arrogance or humility, nor have I expressed one.

As far as Dawkins' alleged arrogance, I didn't ask for evidence, just examples.
However, it does seem to be some peoples' opinion and I really have been curious as to why they react so. I don't see it.

Then I'm doubly glad I didn't accuse you! Smile

Honestly, I think a case could be made that the British accent comes across as a bit haughty to some Americans. The same friend I referenced says that after people get to know her, she often hears, "You're much nicer than I imagined when I first met you." We've discussed this a bit and it's her feeling that it's because of her "snooty" accent (her term).
Also, he is extremely confident in his position. That can also be wrongly interpreted as arrogant. Probably why you don't see it. Wink

My comment was bred from emotion, so all I can offer is that my assessment of his personality is my feeling. However, I hope I made it clear that I respect Professor Dawkins greatly. That is the primary reason I am saddened that he has declined to debate WLC. I want to see the spectacle of him pwning WLC.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2011, 09:11 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 08:30 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  However, I hope I made it clear that I respect Professor Dawkins greatly. That is the primary reason I am saddened that he has declined to debate WLC. I want to see the spectacle of him pwning WLC.

I, too, would be interested to see this debate; but I understand why Dr.Dawkins declines - he would demolish WLC's arguments, but WLC wouldn't understand or agree that he had been destroyed.

Kind of like:



Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
12-12-2011, 09:13 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2011 09:16 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
Chas, if you would use more Monty Python and less strict rationality, I think I'd have more conversations with you...then again, you're probably better off sticking with the rationality than having to put up with me. Smile

One of my favorite lines to use with people, "You make me sad. So be it."

Haha...King Arthur does the Tebow "Thinker" pose. Smile

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2011, 09:33 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 09:13 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Chas, if you would use more Monty Python and less strict rationality, I think I'd have more conversations with you...then again, you're probably better off sticking with the rationality than having to put up with me. Smile

Maybe so, maybe so.
I'm a guy who loves Shakespeare, Monty Python, the wonders of nature, music (Messiah is currently playing in the background), romance, food, photography, golf, and a lot more.

What I don't like is obviously incorrect logic, bad spelling, dumbed-down history, ignorant grammar, and polyester.

I'm not really very Spock-like. Except the ears.

[Image: RedTail700.jpg]

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
12-12-2011, 10:00 PM
RE: Does Dawkins Fear Philosophy?
(12-12-2011 09:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  Maybe so, maybe so.
I'm a guy who loves Shakespeare, Monty Python, the wonders of nature, music (Messiah is currently playing in the background), romance, food, photography, golf, and a lot more.

What I don't like is obviously incorrect logic, bad spelling, dumbed-down history, ignorant grammar, and polyester.

I'm not really very Spock-like. Except the ears.

Have you considered using this description on a dating site such as Match.com? Smile

The same aforementioned British friend insists that no one she knows in England likes Monty Python, so of course I like to refer to them as often as possible. In fact, the way I found out she was so antagonistic about Dawkins was I told her he had referred to MP in a couple of speeches I heard on YouTube. I tried to use this as evidence that there are intelligent people in England who like Monty Python. That is when I learned that because of the love she has for her former professor, Dawkins is her "mortal enemy." Smile

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Synthesis of Religious Philosophy Rinpoche 17 202 02-07-2014 08:09 PM
Last Post: Taqiyya Mockingbird
  Critique My Philosophy of Life? Philosofer123 48 1,530 18-02-2014 08:33 PM
Last Post: Chippy
  Semantic wars on Hemlock Island (or how I got banned from a philosophy forum) Luminon 15 508 21-01-2014 04:20 PM
Last Post: Luminon
  Philosophy book recommendations natachan 9 248 09-01-2014 07:17 AM
Last Post: Khare
  Can I get some opinions on a philosophy project? Penumbrae 5 344 20-11-2013 09:10 AM
Last Post: Penumbrae
  Is Quantum Mechanics a Science, Philosophy or Religion, or some new age mix of all 3? I and I 55 4,747 18-11-2013 11:25 AM
Last Post: brokensymmetry
  Beginners Philosophy Monster_Riffs 4 286 11-11-2013 06:56 PM
Last Post: Monster_Riffs
Forum Jump: