Does Jesus claim divinity?
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12-02-2012, 01:46 PM
Does Jesus claim divinity?
Hi, I am new here and also a recovering christian. I was raised in the church (non-denominational). For me it's been a gradual deconversion but I finally studied my way into atheism, about 4 months ago. I have been listening to any and all debates, ted talks, etc.. that I can. I've read The God Delusion, god is not great and am now starting A History of God by Karen Armstrong.

Just this week I have watched The Bible's Buried Secrets (PBS Nova), Why I am no longer a Christian by Evid3nc3, and The Truth About the Bible Exposed, a talk by Bart Erhman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1hdqNDQ...=related).

Erhman's talk reminded me of something that I came across a couple months ago claiming that biblical scholars now believe that Jesus never claimed to be divine. Can anyone direct me to a reputable source that discusses this? I would also enjoy reading what this community has to say about this as well.

Thanks
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12-02-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(12-02-2012 01:46 PM)Noelani Wrote:  Hi, I am new here and also a recovering christian. I was raised in the church (non-denominational). For me it's been a gradual deconversion but I finally studied my way into atheism, about 4 months ago. I have been listening to any and all debates, ted talks, etc.. that I can. I've read The God Delusion, god is not great and am now starting A History of God by Karen Armstrong.

Just this week I have watched The Bible's Buried Secrets (PBS Nova), Why I am no longer a Christian by Evid3nc3, and The Truth About the Bible Exposed, a talk by Bart Erhman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1hdqNDQ...=related).

Erhman's talk reminded me of something that I came across a couple months ago claiming that biblical scholars now believe that Jesus never claimed to be divine. Can anyone direct me to a reputable source that discusses this? I would also enjoy reading what this community has to say about this as well.

Thanks

Welcome, I hope you find enlightenment here.

However, you won't get a lot of enlightenment from me on this. My response to this kind of question is a heart "Who gives a fuck?" Really, I don't see any interest in this kind of thing since I am an atheist. For me, this is literary criticism, like "Was Voldemort gay?"

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2012, 03:09 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
Jesus let other people make the claim about him, but to my knowledge (and I'm often wrong), the actual statement doesn't come from him.

And welcome. Smile

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-02-2012, 07:56 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
Mark 14:61-62
61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64 Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”


Luke 22:70
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

Son of God/Man? So what? Does that claim divinity? Yes. Look at what the Jews knew about the "Son".

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

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12-02-2012, 08:03 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW8fDw8VzKI

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12-02-2012, 09:38 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(12-02-2012 07:56 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Mark 14:61-62
61 But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64 Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.”


Luke 22:70
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

Son of God/Man? So what? Does that claim divinity? Yes. Look at what the Jews knew about the "Son".

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

And your conclusion should be, he did not claim divinity in any of those verses.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-02-2012, 09:58 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(12-02-2012 01:46 PM)Noelani Wrote:  Jesus never claimed to be divine.

That lying SOB. I'm the son of god.
I hate it when these cheap imitators steal my lines.
Take a few centuries off and they just come out of the woodwork.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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12-02-2012, 10:30 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(12-02-2012 09:38 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  And your conclusion should be, he did not claim divinity in any of those verses.

Claiming to be the Son of Man - a being that was given divine authority - is claiming divinity.

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13-02-2012, 10:50 AM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
Also Erxomai, that's like saying this:

If you asked me, "Do you play linebacker for the Greenbay Packers?"
I answer, "Yes. It is as you say. I play linebacker for the Greenbay Packers."
Then someone else says, "Well, that doesn't mean he plays professional football. I mean, he didn't actually say that he played professional football did he?"

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13-02-2012, 10:57 AM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(12-02-2012 10:30 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-02-2012 09:38 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  And your conclusion should be, he did not claim divinity in any of those verses.

Claiming to be the Son of Man - a being that was given divine authority - is claiming divinity.

Since you're into language studies, you ought to check out what the Jews meant by "Son of Man." Christians have turned it into a phrase that = Divinity, but that wasn't the the original intent. It is a title for the Messiah NOT God. Jesus did not ever claim to be God. He could have had he wanted to, but he did not. Instead, he adopted the phrase used for God's Messiah...the one who would come to save Israel from their enemies.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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