Does Jesus claim divinity?
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15-03-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(15-03-2012 08:03 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 07:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 12:02 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  My point being, Jesus never flat out said he was divine.

I disagree. The response he received from John 8-58 indicates that the priesty-types knew he was claiming divinity. Tongue

Of course, the way I see it, Jesus was Paul's invention for the creation of evangelical Judaism.

Exactly. Big Grin

Permit me to add my 2c worth here.

I agree with you both....absolutely. "Jesus" , as in the son of god, who died for everyone's sins and rose from the dead, was Paul's creation.

I want to add, however, that Paul's "Christ" was not the living, breathing circa AD 30 character we read about in the gospels. Paul's Christ was a spirit, never a human entity. Paul never (well, almost never) talks about what "Jesus " said or did.
Paul's "Christ" has been retrofitted into the gospels to create Jesus.

It took me a frikin' long time to understand this. Just wanted to share it with you.
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15-03-2012, 05:39 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
I'm not sure this matters or not but....

If I claimed to be of divine origin would you believe me too? I'm just sayin...

***2000 years later someone finds the Hard drive that contains this post and a new religion is formed "Clint the Divine" becomes their savior.***

Tongue sorry couldn't resist!

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15-03-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(15-03-2012 07:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 12:02 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  My point being, Jesus never flat out said he was divine.

I disagree. The response he received from John 8-58 indicates that the priesty-types knew he was claiming divinity. Tongue

Of course, the way I see it, Jesus was Paul's invention for the creation of evangelical Judaism.

I must agree with Hoc. If you look at all N.T. scripture, it appears that Jesus, at least in some places, claims divinity though he also makes statements to the contrary.
Most Christians like to be eclectic in their choice of verses.
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15-03-2012, 05:53 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(15-03-2012 05:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 08:03 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 07:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 12:02 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  My point being, Jesus never flat out said he was divine.

I disagree. The response he received from John 8-58 indicates that the priesty-types knew he was claiming divinity. Tongue

Of course, the way I see it, Jesus was Paul's invention for the creation of evangelical Judaism.

Exactly. Big Grin

Permit me to add my 2c worth here.

I agree with you both....absolutely. "Jesus" , as in the son of god, who died for everyone's sins and rose from the dead, was Paul's creation.

I want to add, however, that Paul's "Christ" was not the living, breathing circa AD 30 character we read about in the gospels. Paul's Christ was a spirit, never a human entity. Paul never (well, almost never) talks about what "Jesus " said or did.
Paul's "Christ" has been retrofitted into the gospels to create Jesus.

It took me a frikin' long time to understand this. Just wanted to share it with you.

At least ya didn't get stuck with the tag of prophet outta the deal. Big Grin

I remember "being with Paul at Corinth (of course I'm bugfuck, so... Wink )" which makes my conviction that Jesus never existed more certain than most. Yeah, it makes more sense that way. Wink

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15-03-2012, 06:06 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(15-03-2012 05:39 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  I'm not sure this matters or not but....

If I claimed to be of divine origin would you believe me too? I'm just sayin...

***2000 years later someone finds the Hard drive that contains this post and a new religion is formed "Clint the Divine" becomes their savior.***

Tongue sorry couldn't resist!

Breaking News!

Researchers have recovered deleted files from the Divine Clint hard drive and apparently he wants all of you to watch lots of porn. Like the sick stuff. Break out the latex gloves, hamsters, coleman stoves, and garden shovels, because this is going to be a bumpy ride.

Tonight at 9

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15-03-2012, 06:18 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(15-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 07:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 12:02 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  My point being, Jesus never flat out said he was divine.

I disagree. The response he received from John 8-58 indicates that the priesty-types knew he was claiming divinity. Tongue

Of course, the way I see it, Jesus was Paul's invention for the creation of evangelical Judaism.

I must agree with Hoc. If you look at all N.T. scripture, it appears that Jesus, at least in some places, claims divinity though he also makes statements to the contrary.
Most Christians like to be eclectic in their choice of verses.

And you have read these verses where?
The only thing that Pastor Erxomai is aware of in coming close is the verse KC quoted from John, which is a suspect book for giving factual detail. Even so, the words of divinity still did not come from Jesus' mouth. Is it implied? Possibly. The religious leaders wouldn't even dream that someone would claim to be God. That would be as ridiculous as me claiming to be a Time-Lord. But they were VERY pissed of that he used Messiah language. He was claiming he was sent by God to be the Messianic King who would throw off the Roman rule. Jewish leaders didn't like this so much because they already had a nice little set up for themselves as long as there weren't any rabble-rousers around to blow the gig with the Romans.

Unless you can give me chapter and verse, I stand by my statement that Jesus never claimed divinity for himself.

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16-03-2012, 05:27 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
If claiming divinity makes you God, then we have about 30 Gods walking the planet today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peo...o_be_Jesus

Maybe there is proof that God is real. His son's are all over the place.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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20-03-2012, 10:42 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(12-02-2012 01:46 PM)Noelani Wrote:  Hi, I am new here and also a recovering christian. I was raised in the church (non-denominational). For me it's been a gradual deconversion but I finally studied my way into atheism, about 4 months ago. I have been listening to any and all debates, ted talks, etc.. that I can. I've read The God Delusion, god is not great and am now starting A History of God by Karen Armstrong.

Just this week I have watched The Bible's Buried Secrets (PBS Nova), Why I am no longer a Christian by Evid3nc3, and The Truth About the Bible Exposed, a talk by Bart Erhman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1hdqNDQ...=related).

Erhman's talk reminded me of something that I came across a couple months ago claiming that biblical scholars now believe that Jesus never claimed to be divine. Can anyone direct me to a reputable source that discusses this? I would also enjoy reading what this community has to say about this as well.

Thanks

The concept of the human person, Yeshua bar Josef, being a "divinity", developed over a fairly long period of time. The gospels have differing views on the subject.
In Mark, he went from human to divine. (Human -> divine).
In Matthew, and Luke, he goes from being divine, gave it up, became just human, and went back to being divine. (Divine -> human -> divine).
In John, he was always divine, took on human form, and went back to being just divine. (Divine -> human+divine -> divine). Interesting, fairly complex references.
Another good source for beginners, is the PBS Frontline series, "From Jesus to Christ". Long, but full of history, archaeology, and FACTS. One of the basic texts in the mainline schools, is Rudolph Bultmann's "Jesus Christ and Mythology". There are MANY texts on "The Historical Jesus". Maybe someone could weigh in, on a good one. I've read many.

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20-03-2012, 10:43 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
Hey Bucky's Back!

Or have we just not been frequenting the same threads?Huh

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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20-03-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: Does Jesus claim divinity?
(20-03-2012 10:43 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Hey Bucky's Back!

Or have we just not been frequenting the same threads?Huh

Bucky has been misbehaving over on the YEC bla bla traveling light thing.
Don't waste your time. (creationism)...all the OLD OLD OLD arguments.
How's tricks, preacher man ?

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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