Does Porn Suck?
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19-10-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
Quote:which at the end of the day leads to a one way sex life with just satisfaction for the man..... which will enevitably lead to an unhealthy sexual relationship.
It'll lead to an unhealthy relationship if the people in the relationship have zero communication with each other about sex, yeah... If you can't discuss sex with someone, maybe you shouldn't be having sex with that person.

Quote:Pornography involving nonconsenting partners is the only kind that I oppose.
Agreed. And that's why I'm against child porn and bestiality porn.

As for "raising the bar," if there is a demand, someone will supply it. I doubt most porn producers go around wanting to make things as "depraved" as possible; they make stuff because there is an audience.

Quote:As people are moulded by society we need to be very wary, not only with porn, but all that government instrumentalities and greedy corporations choose to feed us.
What. Just because scat porn exists doesn't mean every living human has to watch it. People who are interested in scat will seek out scat. Curious folks might watch it. People who think it sounds horrible will avoid it. I doubt googling for scat porn would turn anyone into some kind of scat fiend unless they were already into it. I have yet to see evidence that the existence of "depraved" porn (=porn you personally dislike) contributes to any sort of societal decay.

Quote:The $90+ billion U.S. porn industry with its degradation of women,vomit, snot, scat preentations, simulated snuff, ongoing efforts to justify any perversion etc --may suit many individuals but is yet, at least from a utilitarian perspective, another blot on society.

There is also a strong (though many try to hide it) links with paedophilia ,child prostitution, slavery and sex holidays where minors are exploted in countries such as Thailand. Where does one decently draw the line between moral relativism (anything consentual goes) and the off shoots suffered by the greater masses?
The biggest problem with porn is that some of it's produced in a shady manner or a way that is bad for the actors. Other than that, I don't see a problem if it's consentual.

As for "ongoing efforts to justify any perversion," you seem to be assuming that any "perversion" (=deviation from the norm) is a problem. I've known lots of people with sexual "perversions" who had happy, healthy sex lives. For me, that sentence makes it seem like the way you like to thinnk about sex or porn should be the only way anyone should, which is problematic.

Quote:Presently, gross perversities, are becoming the norm via porn studios and sexual enhancement clinics
Or it's becoming more acceptable to ADMIT you aren't quite sexually "normal." And even if it is, I'm not convinced it's necessarily a harmful thing.
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20-10-2012, 02:01 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(19-10-2012 09:13 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:which at the end of the day leads to a one way sex life with just satisfaction for the man..... which will enevitably lead to an unhealthy sexual relationship.
It'll lead to an unhealthy relationship if the people in the relationship have zero communication with each other about sex, yeah... If you can't discuss sex with someone, maybe you shouldn't be having sex with that person.

Quote:Pornography involving nonconsenting partners is the only kind that I oppose.
Agreed. And that's why I'm against child porn and bestiality porn.

As for "raising the bar," if there is a demand, someone will supply it. I doubt most porn producers go around wanting to make things as "depraved" as possible; they make stuff because there is an audience.

Quote:As people are moulded by society we need to be very wary, not only with porn, but all that government instrumentalities and greedy corporations choose to feed us.
What. Just because scat porn exists doesn't mean every living human has to watch it. People who are interested in scat will seek out scat. Curious folks might watch it. People who think it sounds horrible will avoid it. I doubt googling for scat porn would turn anyone into some kind of scat fiend unless they were already into it. I have yet to see evidence that the existence of "depraved" porn (=porn you personally dislike) contributes to any sort of societal decay.

Quote:The $90+ billion U.S. porn industry with its degradation of women,vomit, snot, scat preentations, simulated snuff, ongoing efforts to justify any perversion etc --may suit many individuals but is yet, at least from a utilitarian perspective, another blot on society.

There is also a strong (though many try to hide it) links with paedophilia ,child prostitution, slavery and sex holidays where minors are exploted in countries such as Thailand. Where does one decently draw the line between moral relativism (anything consentual goes) and the off shoots suffered by the greater masses?
The biggest problem with porn is that some of it's produced in a shady manner or a way that is bad for the actors. Other than that, I don't see a problem if it's consentual.

As for "ongoing efforts to justify any perversion," you seem to be assuming that any "perversion" (=deviation from the norm) is a problem. I've known lots of people with sexual "perversions" who had happy, healthy sex lives. For me, that sentence makes it seem like the way you like to thinnk about sex or porn should be the only way anyone should, which is problematic.

Quote:Presently, gross perversities, are becoming the norm via porn studios and sexual enhancement clinics
Or it's becoming more acceptable to ADMIT you aren't quite sexually "normal." And even if it is, I'm not convinced it's necessarily a harmful thing.

Essentially you appear to be touching on human rights with some emphasis on scat porn and its degree of normalcy.
I would imagine that the vast majority would feel uneasy about this type of behaviour relevant to aesthetic and hygiene issues, while the taboo aspect may well appeal to some, which is none of my business. I would hasten to add that because I express a view, I am not equating the issue with the deemed decency of bombing innocent civillians and the like, which is seen by some as justifiable on the basis of much jumbled thinking.

My original post concerned extreme aspects such as snuff, violence directed against women and the exploitation of children and the need for some boundaries within the industry, which, unlike you, I do not see self regulation as being adequate.

As previously indicated, arguments claiming that extremely cruel fantasies provide sexual relief, and prevent actual physical harm to others is not convincing in my vew.
If this is the case than such appeals for leniency should not be acceptable when used as an offence against horrendous crimes. Surely it has to be a two way street.

Human rights are the basis of acceptable living and imply the 'wrong' attitudes of others. We do not live in a Utopia, far from it and sadly even small degrees of compromise seem highly elusive.
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20-10-2012, 02:40 PM
Re: Does Porn Suck?
In regards to violence and child porn.. Are you only in argument with acts involving real people or does animated pornography of that kind seem as bad.

In relation to you saying the argument of easing perverted ideas, I ask; because, In Japan those types of abusive or degrading pornography are far from uncommon. Japan however had a low rape and sex abuse rate compared to other 1st world nations considered their equal.

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20-10-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(22-03-2012 05:35 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I think many would join me in condemning at least some of the more virulent forms of pornography such as kiddie porn, blatant degradation of women, simulated snuff movies, and scat. Others will say that our rights against censorship is more important.

Since I'm too lazy to read up on whatever the rest of the thread is talking about, I'm just going to go into the source here directly.

I will say something about your desire to see degradation and scat porn made illegal. Why does it matter to you what porn other people enjoy? You are aware that pornography is done between consenting people. If women are degraded on camera for a porno, it's because they said yes. And guess what, some people like things you don't. It may sound crazy, but it's true. That's why I'm not calling for Nicki Minaj's music to be made illegal. Oh yeah, scat is gross to you. But other people enjoy it. You might find it hard to imagine, but other people just enjoy that stuff. And you can't let them? You have to say "I don't like it, therefore it should be illegal!"? I mean, you literally say "grossly weird". As if that means something should be illegal.

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20-10-2012, 03:43 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
Quote:Essentially you appear to be touching on human rights with some emphasis on scat porn and its degree of normalcy.
No, I was not touching on its "normalcy," I was only saying I see no reason to outlaw it. Yes, there are possible hygeinic issues, but if that bothers you, don't eat shit. In fact, if you like seeing people play with shit, scat porn would give you a safe outlet for your fetish. And again, the hygiene issues (bacteria/diseases in fecal matter) only concern the people who are playing with shit. No one else is affected. And if two people are both into scat and play with poop together, that's consensual behavior and I see no reason to meddle in it because I think poop is "icky."

Quote:Human rights are the basis of acceptable living and imply the 'wrong' attitudes of others. We do not live in a Utopia, far from it and sadly even small degrees of compromise seem highly elusive.
But who decides what is acceptable and "normal," especially when we're talking about small groups of sexual deviants that do not seem to be hurting anyone else at all?

I think oral sex is gross and unhygienic. If I became leader of a country, would that give me the right to outlaw oral sex for everyone? Because that's what you're doing: arbitrarily deciding what should be legal based on your own personal tastes. You seem to be wanting to get rid o sexually deviant porn for no good reason, other than that you personally don't want to see it.

Also, you seem to be placing moral values on normalcy and deviance, which only describe the prevalence of a thing, not whether it's good or bad or useful or harmful.
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20-10-2012, 08:12 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(20-10-2012 02:40 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  In regards to violence and child porn.. Are you only in argument with acts involving real people or does animated pornography of that kind seem as bad.

In relation to you saying the argument of easing perverted ideas, I ask; because, In Japan those types of abusive or degrading pornography are far from uncommon. Japan however had a low rape and sex abuse rate compared to other 1st world nations considered their equal.

I don't think amimated porn of that nature is as bad. It is certainly preferable to the real thing.
Re Japan there could be a lot of other cultural variables to account for the stats you mention.I read somewhere that mother /son incestuous relations are somewhat more common in Japan.
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20-10-2012, 08:23 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(20-10-2012 03:33 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  
(22-03-2012 05:35 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I think many would join me in condemning at least some of the more virulent forms of pornography such as kiddie porn, blatant degradation of women, simulated snuff movies, and scat. Others will say that our rights against censorship is more important.

Since I'm too lazy to read up on whatever the rest of the thread is talking about, I'm just going to go into the source here directly.

I will say something about your desire to see degradation and scat porn made illegal. Why does it matter to you what porn other people enjoy? You are aware that pornography is done between consenting people. If women are degraded on camera for a porno, it's because they said yes. And guess what, some people like things you don't. It may sound crazy, but it's true. That's why I'm not calling for Nicki Minaj's music to be made illegal. Oh yeah, scat is gross to you. But other people enjoy it. You might find it hard to imagine, but other people just enjoy that stuff. And you can't let them? You have to say "I don't like it, therefore it should be illegal!"? I mean, you literally say "grossly weird". As if that means something should be illegal.

I don't recall saying scatological acts should be made illegal...........
I am not aware that all pornography is done by consenting people.
Are you suggesting that babies give their consent?
The degradation of women on porno videos is not as clear cut as you indicate either.
As citizens of society we all have the right to express our views regarding the nature of certain behaviours and I don't need to be liked and choose to call things as I see it.o
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20-10-2012, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 20-10-2012 08:52 PM by Nevermore.)
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(20-10-2012 08:23 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(20-10-2012 03:33 PM)Nevermore Wrote:  Since I'm too lazy to read up on whatever the rest of the thread is talking about, I'm just going to go into the source here directly.

I will say something about your desire to see degradation and scat porn made illegal. Why does it matter to you what porn other people enjoy? You are aware that pornography is done between consenting people. If women are degraded on camera for a porno, it's because they said yes. And guess what, some people like things you don't. It may sound crazy, but it's true. That's why I'm not calling for Nicki Minaj's music to be made illegal. Oh yeah, scat is gross to you. But other people enjoy it. You might find it hard to imagine, but other people just enjoy that stuff. And you can't let them? You have to say "I don't like it, therefore it should be illegal!"? I mean, you literally say "grossly weird". As if that means something should be illegal.

I don't recall saying scatological acts should be made illegal...........
I am not aware that all pornography is done by consenting people.
Are you suggesting that babies give their consent?
The degradation of women on porno videos is not as clear cut as you indicate either.
As citizens of society we all have the right to express our views regarding the nature of certain behaviours and I don't need to be liked and choose to call things as I see it.o

Okay, you're right. Not all porn is consenting. But that can be said for literally anything. For every piece of entertainment you use, someone very well may have been forced into producing it. For all you know, the person who made this forum was forced to at gunpoint. So I guess that makes you a hypocrite. By the way, you did say you would like to see it illegal and pushed underground. Yeah, there's a good idea. More black markets!
And I wasn't silencing you. But thank you for randomly reiterating what freedom of speech means.

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20-10-2012, 08:52 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(20-10-2012 03:43 PM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:Essentially you appear to be touching on human rights with some emphasis on scat porn and its degree of normalcy.
No, I was not touching on its "normalcy," I was only saying I see no reason to outlaw it. Yes, there are possible hygeinic issues, but if that bothers you, don't eat shit. In fact, if you like seeing people play with shit, scat porn would give you a safe outlet for your fetish. And again, the hygiene issues (bacteria/diseases in fecal matter) only concern the people who are playing with shit. No one else is affected. And if two people are both into scat and play with poop together, that's consensual behavior and I see no reason to meddle in it because I think poop is "icky."

Quote:Human rights are the basis of acceptable living and imply the 'wrong' attitudes of others. We do not live in a Utopia, far from it and sadly even small degrees of compromise seem highly elusive.
But who decides what is acceptable and "normal," especially when we're talking about small groups of sexual deviants that do not seem to be hurting anyone else at all?

I think oral sex is gross and unhygienic. If I became leader of a country, would that give me the right to outlaw oral sex for everyone? Because that's what you're doing: arbitrarily deciding what should be legal based on your own personal tastes. You seem to be wanting to get rid o sexually deviant porn for no good reason, other than that you personally don't want to see it.

Also, you seem to be placing moral values on normalcy and deviance, which only describe the prevalence of a thing, not whether it's good or bad or useful or harmful.

I am not arbitrarily determining anything!
I am expressing considerations relevant to human behaviour.
There is a difference between saying that one is not attracted to something and saying that "the offenders should be punished.
I think it is an important human right to express one's personal views over anything and not simply adopt the simple people appeasing approach without giving the issue due consideration.You are ignoring the fact that offensive porn can impinge on those who may not want it, including minors and also fail to consider indirect ramifications that warrant addressing. The "personal rights" claim if often, in my view, simply a cop out.
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20-10-2012, 11:34 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(20-10-2012 08:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I am not arbitrarily determining anything!
I am expressing considerations relevant to human behaviour.
There is a difference between saying that one is not attracted to something and saying that "the offenders should be punished.
I think it is an important human right to express one's personal views over anything and not simply adopt the simple people appeasing approach without giving the issue due consideration.You are ignoring the fact that offensive porn can impinge on those who may not want it, including minors and also fail to consider indirect ramifications that warrant addressing. The "personal rights" claim if often, in my view, simply a cop out.
Who the hell is making minor children watch scat porn?! I am just saying that adults who want to watch scat porn and buy scat porn or make scat porn are not hurting anyone else. I have yet to see anyone force their love of scat onto random strangers. In fact, I doubt many people advertise their love of scat to everyone they know. I doubt that many people not into scat are watching scat, and if they do, they probably aren't being turned into perverts; they're likely just going to throw up and turn it off.

So yes, your opinion that scat porn is somehow wrong, or more wrong than other porn, does seem a bit arbitrary to me.
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