Does Porn Suck?
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28-03-2012, 01:49 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2012 01:54 PM by morondog.)
RE: Does Porn Suck?
Ah right Smile That's interesting. Thanks for the Bill of Rights lesson Smile

I don't see rights as inalienable. It sounds dreadful I know Tongue But the laws in the SA constitution are there for good reason, maybe once we all learn to get along better they can be taken out - already SA society is much less repressive than it once was.

It's better I think to have it as you do, but here (well there at the moment 'cos I'm overseas Tongue ) it's very easy to inflame people to the point of violence, because of past history. Many unscrupulous politicians are not above doing exactly that. Having the hate speech laws makes it just that tiny bit more difficult for those kinds of guys.
And so again, on the snuff thing, if it was a matter of national urgency to stop those goddamn snuff porn watching freaks then yeah, a referendum with a vote, a change to the constitution - I don't see that as too bad. They can still change it back again or challenge it in the courts...
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28-03-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
Blah dislikes futanari (two in one)? Why would anyone care that they make futanari? I happen to like it occasionally outside of the macro part. For me that's as close as porn comes to having someone like me.

And it's important to remember Moron, in th US we also have fake child porn which is also legal. Neither snuff or actual child porn are legal, but they both have legal substitues.

I would never be for a discrimination of such things since it's really forcing those who happen to have fringe desires to turn to less desireable options. Anyone for legalization of drugs should feel across the board that legal options are simply a safer idea.

Most of you would probably throw furry porn in with the rest since a large portion of the net seems to consider it bestiality fantasy.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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28-03-2012, 02:10 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(28-03-2012 01:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  I don't see rights as inalienable. It sounds dreadful I know Tongue

Technically, I don't see them as inalienable, either. They're entirely alienable. Tongue But I think that everyone should have these rights.

(28-03-2012 01:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  But the laws in the SA constitution are there for good reason, maybe once we all learn to get along better they can be taken out - already SA society is much less repressive than it once was.

It might very much be necessary that your country has these laws in place. I'm not a South African, so I can't comment. But I will say that I don't think it's right, even if it is necessary.

(28-03-2012 01:49 PM)morondog Wrote:  And so again, on the snuff thing, if it was a matter of national urgency to stop those goddamn snuff porn watching freaks then yeah, a referendum with a vote, a change to the constitution - I don't see that as too bad. They can still change it back again or challenge it in the courts...

I'd still oppose it. I believe very strongly in freedom of expression.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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28-03-2012, 02:12 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
My interest was more hypothetical than actual Wink Was more interested in the discussion around why such a ban would be a bad thing, not advocating it in any way. I honestly can't see anyone getting that up in arms over any kind of porn, even snuff. Easy enough not to watch it if it's not your cup of tea.

Edit: this was in reply to Lilith
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28-03-2012, 05:14 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
Unbeliever.
You seem to oppose no holds barred porn, including the degradation of women on the basis that most 'human rights' need to be free from censorship.

I am aware that some women like to be brutalized and humiliated but does it follow that this should become a legal norm?

Hard core porn, by virtue of its need to keep raising the bar, has to delve further and further into depravity in some cases.

I would strongly deny the right of an "anything goes" approach to porn which legally gives it the right to flourish in degree completely unfettered.

In O.P. my concern was with the potential and current extremes becoming unjustly deemed as socially acceptable.
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28-03-2012, 05:22 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
I'm still in more agreement to Mr. Woof on how the social impacts can be massively influenced by media which has porn included by a large margin.

I've been asked this conundrum a lot by a co-worker of mine:

Why did the whole shaving pubic hair craze grow so large over the shift into the 90s. He depicted that it didn't happen much still in the 80s but only slowly began and it always confused him on why. I'm not sure it is the case but he is adamant the spread of pornography with the internet had a huge impact on this movement. I am not aware of the issue enough to say. For all I know it could also of been influenced by Cosmo and the movement of cleanness being demanded by women in giving oral pleasure. The porn impact is quite interesting though.

BTW: Not sure if it was said or if people know this.. but I think 2 weeks ago now, L.A. passed a law that all pornography filmed in the county/city, whichever part it was, has to use condoms for all penetration scenes. It's clearly putting intend to by the law at least to have saver sex more readily seen by people. Although, it also will push some more porn industry to Nevada which make the move lesser than desired.
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28-03-2012, 05:31 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Unbeliever.
You seem to oppose no holds barred porn

No, I don't. Pornography involving nonconsenting partners is the only kind that I oppose.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  on the basis that most 'human rights' need to be free from censorship.

I think that you mean "on the basis that freedom from censorship is a basic human right", but please correct me if I'm wrong.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I am aware that some women like to be brutalized and humiliated but does it follow that this should become a legal norm?

The terms "legal" and "norm" do not have any connection to one another. And, frankly, yes, it should. If that's what they want, they should be allowed to do it. As long as both partners are consenting, it's none of your business what they do.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Hard core porn, by virtue of its need to keep raising the bar

You haven't shown that there is such a need.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  has to delve further and further into depravity in some cases.

Even assuming that this is undeniably true across the board (which it isn't; even assuming that all porn viewers have to keep viewing more and more "depraved" things to get their kicks, new people come into the consumer group all the time, and porn companies can make just as much money by producing the same things), it's still irrelevant as long as it's produced between consenting partners.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I would strongly deny the right of an "anything goes" approach to porn which legally gives it the right to flourish in degree completely unfettered.

Allow me to reiterate: as long as it is between consenting partners, you have absolutely no right to dictate to anyone what they can and cannot find sexually arousing. Nor do you have the right to dictate what they can and cannot videotape, or what they can and cannot share with others who want to see that kind of thing. The right to freedom of expression exists to protect the things that we don't like, not the things that we do.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  In O.P. my concern was with the potential and current extremes becoming unjustly deemed as socially acceptable.

And this is still entirely irrelevant. If that's what people want to do, then your concern is entirely meaningless. What consenting partners do behind closed doors, and share with other people who are interested in that kind of thing, is none of your business.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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28-03-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(28-03-2012 05:31 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Unbeliever.
You seem to oppose no holds barred porn

No, I don't. Pornography involving nonconsenting partners is the only kind that I oppose.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  on the basis that most 'human rights' need to be free from censorship.

I think that you mean "on the basis that freedom from censorship is a basic human right", but please correct me if I'm wrong.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I am aware that some women like to be brutalized and humiliated but does it follow that this should become a legal norm?

The terms "legal" and "norm" do not have any connection to one another. And, frankly, yes, it should. If that's what they want, they should be allowed to do it. As long as both partners are consenting, it's none of your business what they do.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Hard core porn, by virtue of its need to keep raising the bar

You haven't shown that there is such a need.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  has to delve further and further into depravity in some cases.

Even assuming that this is undeniably true across the board (which it isn't; even assuming that all porn viewers have to keep viewing more and more "depraved" things to get their kicks, new people come into the consumer group all the time, and porn companies can make just as much money by producing the same things), it's still irrelevant as long as it's produced between consenting partners.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  I would strongly deny the right of an "anything goes" approach to porn which legally gives it the right to flourish in degree completely unfettered.

Allow me to reiterate: as long as it is between consenting partners, you have absolutely no right to dictate to anyone what they can and cannot find sexually arousing. Nor do you have the right to dictate what they can and cannot videotape, or what they can and cannot share with others who want to see that kind of thing. The right to freedom of expression exists to protect the things that we don't like, not the things that we do.

(28-03-2012 05:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  In O.P. my concern was with the potential and current extremes becoming unjustly deemed as socially acceptable.

And this is still entirely irrelevant. If that's what people want to do, then your concern is entirely meaningless. What consenting partners do behind closed doors, and share with other people who are interested in that kind of thing, is none of your business.
Unbeliever.
I will not resort to bold case to express my contentions.

Your view of "human right" is obviously different to mine.

The issue of consenting partners misses the point......... as an industry per se ,extreme sanctioned pornography can impact to the detriment of society by virtue of degrading the very essence of society. As people are moulded by society we need to be very wary, not only with porn, but all that government instrumentalities and greedy corporations choose to feed us.

If we place all questionable human indulgences in one basket and let the entrepreneurs say "take your pick" we will, and are, giving up an real free will in quite a dangerous manner.
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28-03-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
(28-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Unbeliever.
I will not resort to bold case to express my contentions.

I'm very happy for you.

(28-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Your view of "human right" is obviously different to mine.

Yes. Yours is much more oppressive, for one thing.

(28-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The issue of consenting partners misses the point.

No, it doesn't. You don't understand the argument I'm making.

(28-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  as an industry per se ,extreme sanctioned pornography can impact to the detriment of society by virtue of degrading the very essence of society.

Look, since what I'm saying obviously isn't getting through, allow me to just leave this image here.

[Image: idiocracy.png]

You rattle on about the "decay of society", and yet you've given us nothing to make us actually think that anything is decaying at all. Your only argument is that you don't think some people should be allowed to make their fetishes known.

(28-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As people are moulded by society we need to be very wary, not only with porn, but all that government instrumentalities and greedy corporations choose to feed us.

So people are forcing you to watch scat porn now?

(28-03-2012 05:52 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  If we place all questionable human indulgences in one basket and let the entrepreneurs say "take your pick" we will, and are, giving up an real free will in quite a dangerous manner.

No. We aren't. Try again.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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28-03-2012, 06:23 PM
RE: Does Porn Suck?
If more is better you obviously win.

Arguments based on equivocation, from authority, ad hominem, ad miseracordium, as ignoratum etc, don't altogether impress.

Been their done that.

Enjoy your evening.
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