Does Satan lie in the Bible?
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07-04-2014, 08:15 AM
Does Satan lie in the Bible?
I was recently thinking about the why do Christians trust YHWH? thread I started and WindyCityJazz's What Is The Difference Between God's Behavior And The Devil's? thread, and that got me thinking about Satan. Despite the fact that he's branded as "The Deceiver" in the Bible, does he actually lie?

In the garden myth, he's more forthcoming about the effects and purpose of the fruit than God is. Heck, depending on how you interpret God's description, he was lying. He said they'd surely die, and they didn't. The only way that's accurate is if he meant that they're immortal and they'd stop being immortal.

The only other examples that can come to my head, he definitely points people in a direction that runs against God's will (sort of. Depends on what you believe about omniscience/omnipotence), but I can't think of any actual lies. Can you think of any?

So far as I can tell, the whole "The Deceiver" notion was cooked up as a defense mechanism to keep people from questioning the religion. If you question it, you're being lead away from the Truth, and it's The Deceiver who's feeding you those lies. I think it's likely that the logical take-home from the Bible is that Satan is actually more trustworthy than God.
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07-04-2014, 08:26 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
I have read the Bible but it was quite a while ago. I don't remember the devil/Satan showing up that much, just a handful of times really. But from what I can remember I don't think he lies in the OT, in fact I think you're right and he certainly seems more trustworthy than Yahweh in Eden. As for the rest of the OT, he is responsible for far fewer deaths, so I think I'd rather be on his team.

The only thing that comes to mind in the NT is when he temps Jesus in the desert but Jesus turns him down anyway so we never find out if he would have given him the Kingdoms promised.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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07-04-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
For a romping good read regarding this very subject Mark Twain's Letters From the Earth is unsurpassed!

Here it is, enjoy.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/twain/letearth.htm

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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07-04-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
Thing is, no where in the Old Testament does it name the talking snake as Satan.

In my opinion, the Garden of Eden story is just a folk tale that's been jammed in there to explain evil, suffering and death... Probably just a different version of Pandora's Box.

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07-04-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 08:46 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Thing is, no where in the Old Testament does it name the talking snake as Satan.

In my opinion, the Garden of Eden story is just a folk tale that's been jammed in there to explain evil, suffering and death... Probably just a different version of Pandora's Box.

I'd much rather hear about Pandora's box however. Lol
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07-04-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 08:50 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 08:46 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Thing is, no where in the Old Testament does it name the talking snake as Satan.

In my opinion, the Garden of Eden story is just a folk tale that's been jammed in there to explain evil, suffering and death... Probably just a different version of Pandora's Box.

I'd much rather hear about Pandora's box however. Lol

Facepalm

How bout Eve's bush?

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07-04-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
Now now people keep those hormones in check Laugh out load

I think Satan in OT times was meant to be an obstacle. Something God sent to block your way, for whatever reason. But it is true, the talking snake was never outed as Satan in the text itself. It was just a chatty guy who spilt the beans on Yahweh's deception and who later xtians (and probably other cults to) decided was the devil as it went against God.

"The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species." - Christopher Hitchens

"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing. Have a great day!" - Ricky Gervais
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07-04-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
In the OT he isn't called the devil even, the hebrew word used is for adversary, or prosecuter. And the only times it acts if either on command of YHWH or with its express permission as in Job.

Saw a video giving an outline of the evolution of the devil through the bible will linl it when I get home.

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07-04-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 08:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I was recently thinking about the why do Christians trust YHWH? thread I started and WindyCityJazz's What Is The Difference Between God's Behavior And The Devil's? thread, and that got me thinking about Satan. Despite the fact that he's branded as "The Deceiver" in the Bible, does he actually lie?

In the garden myth, he's more forthcoming about the effects and purpose of the fruit than God is. Heck, depending on how you interpret God's description, he was lying. He said they'd surely die, and they didn't. The only way that's accurate is if he meant that they're immortal and they'd stop being immortal.

The only other examples that can come to my head, he definitely points people in a direction that runs against God's will (sort of. Depends on what you believe about omniscience/omnipotence), but I can't think of any actual lies. Can you think of any?

So far as I can tell, the whole "The Deceiver" notion was cooked up as a defense mechanism to keep people from questioning the religion. If you question it, you're being lead away from the Truth, and it's The Deceiver who's feeding you those lies. I think it's likely that the logical take-home from the Bible is that Satan is actually more trustworthy than God.
I remember Satan showing up tons of times in the OT doing all kinds of evil things. No wait, sorry, my mistake... that was Yahweh. Angel

I've been going over the Garden of Eden story in my mind after reading your post and I think there are two ways to view it. On the one hand, I see your point that Satan did not lie and told Adam and Eve that eating the fruit would give them knowledge of good and evil. However, he didn't mention that it would cause them to have original sin and all of the supposedly resulting consequences. So one could argue that it was also deceptive.

But otherwise, you are right. I don't remember Satan being mentioned in the Bible much at all, let alone mentioned specifically as deceiving.

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07-04-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 10:15 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 08:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I was recently thinking about the why do Christians trust YHWH? thread I started and WindyCityJazz's What Is The Difference Between God's Behavior And The Devil's? thread, and that got me thinking about Satan. Despite the fact that he's branded as "The Deceiver" in the Bible, does he actually lie?

In the garden myth, he's more forthcoming about the effects and purpose of the fruit than God is. Heck, depending on how you interpret God's description, he was lying. He said they'd surely die, and they didn't. The only way that's accurate is if he meant that they're immortal and they'd stop being immortal.

The only other examples that can come to my head, he definitely points people in a direction that runs against God's will (sort of. Depends on what you believe about omniscience/omnipotence), but I can't think of any actual lies. Can you think of any?

So far as I can tell, the whole "The Deceiver" notion was cooked up as a defense mechanism to keep people from questioning the religion. If you question it, you're being lead away from the Truth, and it's The Deceiver who's feeding you those lies. I think it's likely that the logical take-home from the Bible is that Satan is actually more trustworthy than God.
I remember Satan showing up tons of times in the OT doing all kinds of evil things. No wait, sorry, my mistake... that was Yahweh. Angel

I've been going over the Garden of Eden story in my mind after reading your post and I think there are two ways to view it. On the one hand, I see your point that Satan did not lie and told Adam and Eve that eating the fruit would give them knowledge of good and evil. However, he didn't mention that it would cause them to have original sin and all of the supposedly resulting consequences. So one could argue that it was also deceptive.

But otherwise, you are right. I don't remember Satan being mentioned in the Bible much at all, let alone mentioned specifically as deceiving.
Though Satan may not have known himself that this was God's plan. After all, it doesn't not appear that death was a natural result of eating the fruit, but was something God caused as a curse. Satan may have only known that eating the fruit wasn't going to kill them in and of itself.
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