Does Satan lie in the Bible?
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07-04-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 08:46 AM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Thing is, no where in the Old Testament does it name the talking snake as Satan.

That is true, although Revelation implied it in a retcon.

Revelation 12:9
Quote:9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 20:2
Quote:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Of course, the purpose of the retcon was probably to tell us that Satan was working his evil since the beginning, but there it is.
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07-04-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
[Image: 9342fdc8f4aee6db65bd4275d2f785cdab4195a0...3da741.jpg]

[Image: b98a86616ca0b985a991b9852829bf272f580197...bbf0c7.jpg]


There's a shit-ton of Good Guy Lucifer memes....



http://www.quickmeme.com/Good-Guy-Lucifer/page/1/

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07-04-2014, 10:54 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
As promised the video and a few other sources.





1. The evolution of Satan
ha-satan

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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07-04-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 10:35 AM)Charis Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 10:15 AM)Impulse Wrote:  I remember Satan showing up tons of times in the OT doing all kinds of evil things. No wait, sorry, my mistake... that was Yahweh. Angel

I've been going over the Garden of Eden story in my mind after reading your post and I think there are two ways to view it. On the one hand, I see your point that Satan did not lie and told Adam and Eve that eating the fruit would give them knowledge of good and evil. However, he didn't mention that it would cause them to have original sin and all of the supposedly resulting consequences. So one could argue that it was also deceptive.

But otherwise, you are right. I don't remember Satan being mentioned in the Bible much at all, let alone mentioned specifically as deceiving.
Though Satan may not have known himself that this was God's plan. After all, it doesn't not appear that death was a natural result of eating the fruit, but was something God caused as a curse. Satan may have only known that eating the fruit wasn't going to kill them in and of itself.
Yes, that's certainly a valid point. I did think of that which is why I said "one could argue that it was deceptive" rather than explicitly saying it was deceptive. But, while Satan may not have known specifically what God would do, he was all too familiar with God's wrath so, if I was a believer, I would probably argue that Satan must have known there would be "bad" consequences in addition to the knowledge benefit, but didn't bother mentioning that part.

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07-04-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 11:10 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 10:35 AM)Charis Wrote:  Though Satan may not have known himself that this was God's plan. After all, it doesn't not appear that death was a natural result of eating the fruit, but was something God caused as a curse. Satan may have only known that eating the fruit wasn't going to kill them in and of itself.
Yes, that's certainly a valid point. I did think of that which is why I said "one could argue that it was deceptive" rather than explicitly saying it was deceptive. But, while Satan may not have known specifically what God would do, he was all too familiar with God's wrath so, if I was a believer, I would probably argue that Satan must have known there would be "bad" consequences in addition to the knowledge benefit, but didn't bother mentioning that part.

I can see that, yes. I'd still argue, though, that the only wrath that Satan had known up to that point was being cast out of Heaven, and even though he no longer lived there, he was still able to go back and forth there. So he may have come to the conclusion that it would just be a similar exile/shunning in the case of man. Dunno....
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07-04-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 10:54 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  As promised the video and a few other sources.





1. The evolution of Satan
ha-satan

I saw that a while ago, and really liked it.
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07-04-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 11:13 AM)Charis Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 11:10 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Yes, that's certainly a valid point. I did think of that which is why I said "one could argue that it was deceptive" rather than explicitly saying it was deceptive. But, while Satan may not have known specifically what God would do, he was all too familiar with God's wrath so, if I was a believer, I would probably argue that Satan must have known there would be "bad" consequences in addition to the knowledge benefit, but didn't bother mentioning that part.

I can see that, yes. I'd still argue, though, that the only wrath that Satan had known up to that point was being cast out of Heaven, and even though he no longer lived there, he was still able to go back and forth there. So he may have come to the conclusion that it would just be a similar exile/shunning in the case of man. Dunno....
Yeah, that's why both sides would continue to argue. The Bible is clear as mud and has too much wiggle room.

But, your post brought up another thing that has always bothered me. God cast Satan into hell - the same eternal fire that nonbelievers supposedly will suffer - but yet Satan is able to take the form of a snake, visit the Garden of Eden, and tempt Eve and then Adam (indirectly) into eating the forbidden fruit. How did Satan God allow that exactly... Consider The Bible makes no sense at all. No

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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07-04-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 11:23 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Yeah, that's why both sides would continue to argue. The Bible is clear as mud and has too much wiggle room.

But, your post brought up another thing that has always bothered me. God cast Satan into hell - the same eternal fire that nonbelievers supposedly will suffer - but yet Satan is able to take the form of a snake, visit the Garden of Eden, and tempt Eve and then Adam (indirectly) into eating the forbidden fruit. How did Satan God allow that exactly... Consider The Bible makes no sense at all. No

If one has read the Gnostic gospels, it tends to put the whole story into quite a different light than is painted in the canon scripture.

It states that the "serpent" was not so much the devil as much as it was an Archon/ female creative force that was actively working against Sameal/the actual creator.

It is also more internally consistent than Genesis, but removes the concept of the original sin, a reason most likely that it was not included in the canon scriptures.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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07-04-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 11:23 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 11:13 AM)Charis Wrote:  I can see that, yes. I'd still argue, though, that the only wrath that Satan had known up to that point was being cast out of Heaven, and even though he no longer lived there, he was still able to go back and forth there. So he may have come to the conclusion that it would just be a similar exile/shunning in the case of man. Dunno....
Yeah, that's why both sides would continue to argue. The Bible is clear as mud and has too much wiggle room.

But, your post brought up another thing that has always bothered me. God cast Satan into hell - the same eternal fire that nonbelievers supposedly will suffer - but yet Satan is able to take the form of a snake, visit the Garden of Eden, and tempt Eve and then Adam (indirectly) into eating the forbidden fruit. How did Satan God allow that exactly... Consider The Bible makes no sense at all. No
Hmmmm part of this is probably that, in the church I came from Satan was cast from Heaven, but his being actually cast into Hell is an as yet future event.
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07-04-2014, 11:48 AM
RE: Does Satan lie in the Bible?
(07-04-2014 10:54 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  As promised the video and a few other sources.





1. The evolution of Satan
ha-satan

Great video, thanks for posting that one. Quite a coincidence as, today, I brought a copy of Milton's Paradise Lost in a secondhand bookstore for 10p (about 20 cents). Thumbsup

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