Does Sex Have Limits?
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21-10-2013, 05:25 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 04:48 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 04:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  Bowing
No, because children are not able to recognize the implications of sex, they are too young to understand it and can end up permanently traumatized.

^^ exactly. Yes, there are the dangers of pregnancy and STDs, but there is also a very powerful emotional risk to engaging in sex before you are ready. A parent signing a waiver may take on the responsibility of educating their kids about the pregnancy and disease aspects of it and how to prevent those, but most parents wouldn't be OK with the feelings of guilt for having consented to their child engaging in acts that they weren't emotionally prepared for and which ultimately hurt them.

Yeah I think you are right. But I guess the thing I am wondering about is how this mixes with the idea of sex being an intrinsically meaningless event which is done only for the sake of pleasure and not dependent upon anything else other than a free choice to engage in it. I am not saying everyone adopts that view, but I think most responses that I got did share that perspective. My question is that if it is only an action that is done for the sake of pleasure and does not require a stable relationship or love or anything else, how is it different than anything else done for pleasure like eating ice cream or something?
I think your touching on something true, that there is a high level of emotion involved, but again that's what I'm wondering about, how we balance the idea of sex not having any meaning in itself but then also acknowledge the power that lies in the act that engages our emotions so strongly. The power and emotions seem to point to a certain meaning within the act itself that we would want to prepare children for before entering in. So let me know what you think there, thanks.
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21-10-2013, 05:30 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:14 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 04:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  Bowing
No, because children are not able to recognize the implications of sex, they are too young to understand it and can end up permanently traumatized.
Hey Dom. I guess you are getting at part of what I am wondering about. Could you possibly clarify in regards to what "implications" you have in mind? Are you referring to the "safety" issues of pregnancy and disease that were mentioned in the previous post or do you have other aspects in mind?

Psychological consequences.

And I hope it is clear to you that this forum has a strict "no pedophile discussions" policy, is it? I think I know where this is going now, and that will not happen.

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21-10-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
If you are looking to discuss adults having sex with non-adults, you have come to the wrong place for that discussion.

If you are asking about sex between two teenagers, we are looking at a completely different issue.

Please clarify what it is you are asking.

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21-10-2013, 05:36 PM
Re: Does Sex Have Limits?
If you are still a bit fuzzy on many here saying they think sex has no intrinsic meaning.

It's because many think there is no intrinsic meaning to anything.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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21-10-2013, 05:41 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:25 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 04:48 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  ^^ exactly. Yes, there are the dangers of pregnancy and STDs, but there is also a very powerful emotional risk to engaging in sex before you are ready. A parent signing a waiver may take on the responsibility of educating their kids about the pregnancy and disease aspects of it and how to prevent those, but most parents wouldn't be OK with the feelings of guilt for having consented to their child engaging in acts that they weren't emotionally prepared for and which ultimately hurt them.

Yeah I think you are right. But I guess the thing I am wondering about is how this mixes with the idea of sex being an intrinsically meaningless event which is done only for the sake of pleasure and not dependent upon anything else other than a free choice to engage in it. I am not saying everyone adopts that view, but I think most responses that I got did share that perspective. My question is that if it is only an action that is done for the sake of pleasure and does not require a stable relationship or love or anything else, how is it different than anything else done for pleasure like eating ice cream or something?
I think your touching on something true, that there is a high level of emotion involved, but again that's what I'm wondering about, how we balance the idea of sex not having any meaning in itself but then also acknowledge the power that lies in the act that engages our emotions so strongly. The power and emotions seem to point to a certain meaning within the act itself that we would want to prepare children for before entering in. So let me know what you think there, thanks.

The responses to your original thread suggested that each person assigns their own meaning to sex in their lives, not that sex has no meaning. No one ever claimed that. I think the issue is that younger or less mature people might not have the tools to decide what meaning to attach to it. Someone in their teens or early 20s may assign way too much meaning to it and be very damaged when that relationship ends. I think most of us have experienced that. In a hypothetical society where sex wasn't demonized as it is in our society, and sex end advocated sex as a tool for pleasure above all else, I don't think sex would carry as many negative connotations for young people as it does. But the way it is now, sex is somehow demonized and glamorized simultaneously, which makes it appealing in more ways than one to teenagers. It's a tool for rebellion, and also a romantic connection to someone who they often feel will spend eternity with them if they give it up, which is unrealistic and only leads to disappointment.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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21-10-2013, 05:43 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:19 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 04:26 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  How did you jump from "sex has no intrinsic meaning " to "if sex has no meaning..." ?
These are two completely different positions.

Secondly, I don't know where you live, but where I live sex between non-adults is not forbidden , only sex between an adult and a non-adult is.

Thanks slowminded. I didn't intend to make a distinction between "no intrinsic meaning" and "no meaning", when I used "no meaning" i meant it in the context of intrinsic meaning as mentioned originally. But as I mentioned the general answers I received were that sex does not have a meaning in itself except for the meaning that each individual finds in it. If the meaning is up to the individual then it is a subjective meaning given to the act by the person, rather than an objective meaning inherent in the act which the person receives and understands. Something akin to a word or a particular symbol which in itself is just a noise or scribble, but receives meaning when people assign it meaning. I don't know if you agree or not with that distinction or if that is how you feel about sex. Let me know.

Secondly I didn't come up with the "adults" only idea it was what seemed to be the genuine consensus from my previous post so that is what I was speaking to.

Yes, I agree with that position : "sex does not have a meaning in itself except for the meaning that each individual finds in it."

For the second part, ok, I understand where it came from, I just pointed out the
fact that sex between non-adults is not forbidden, because that weights on your question "what reasons do we give for forbidding non-adults from the act?" in a sense that since we are not forbidding it, coming up with the reasons is redundant.

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21-10-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 05:14 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  Hey Dom. I guess you are getting at part of what I am wondering about. Could you possibly clarify in regards to what "implications" you have in mind? Are you referring to the "safety" issues of pregnancy and disease that were mentioned in the previous post or do you have other aspects in mind?

Psychological consequences.

And I hope it is clear to you that this forum has a strict "no pedophile discussions" policy, is it? I think I know where this is going now, and that will not happen.

My interests are discussing the nature of sex. I'm not interested in the topic of pedophilia or sex between adults and kids. I'm simply trying to flesh out the implications of the double statements that A) sex itself does not have a particular meaning but only receives meaning by the persons who engage in it, and B) sex should be limited to adults etc.

To clarify, I in no way support pedophilia nor do I agree that children should be having sex. My point is merely to question the implications of saying that the act of sex itself has only subjective meaning.

Now again, this was the common consensus from my previous post. I am not the one saying sex is inherently meaningless I am just speaking about the views stated in that post. If you disagree then please spell out the way in which you believe sex to have meaning.
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21-10-2013, 05:51 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:43 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  [quote='WimpyPete' pid='399857' dateline='1382397547']

Yes, I agree with that position : "sex does not have a meaning in itself except for the meaning that each individual finds in it."

For the second part, ok, I understand where it came from, I just pointed out the
fact that sex between non-adults is not forbidden, because that weights on your question "what reasons do we give for forbidding non-adults from the act?" in a sense that since we are not forbidding it, coming up with the reasons is redundant.

Thanks for making that more clear. Again, I brought up the issue of sex for non-adults being restricted because that is the restriction that people stated.
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21-10-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:47 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 05:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  Psychological consequences.

And I hope it is clear to you that this forum has a strict "no pedophile discussions" policy, is it? I think I know where this is going now, and that will not happen.

My interests are discussing the nature of sex. I'm not interested in the topic of pedophilia or sex between adults and kids. I'm simply trying to flesh out the implications of the double statements that A) sex itself does not have a particular meaning but only receives meaning by the persons who engage in it, and B) sex should be limited to adults etc.

To clarify, I in no way support pedophilia nor do I agree that children should be having sex. My point is merely to question the implications of saying that the act of sex itself has only subjective meaning.

Now again, this was the common consensus from my previous post. I am not the one saying sex is inherently meaningless I am just speaking about the views stated in that post. If you disagree then please spell out the way in which you believe sex to have meaning.

Sex isn't meaningless. Sex has whatever meaning a person assigns to it. And this meaning will change over the years. Sex doesn't have the same meaning for everyone, nor does it have the same meaning for the same persons at different stages of life.

Ideally, people who have the same meaning assigned to it at the time will engage in it together. That would make the experience most satisfying for both.

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21-10-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Does Sex Have Limits?
(21-10-2013 05:47 PM)WimpyPete Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 05:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  Psychological consequences.

And I hope it is clear to you that this forum has a strict "no pedophile discussions" policy, is it? I think I know where this is going now, and that will not happen.

My interests are discussing the nature of sex. I'm not interested in the topic of pedophilia or sex between adults and kids. I'm simply trying to flesh out the implications of the double statements that A) sex itself does not have a particular meaning but only receives meaning by the persons who engage in it, and B) sex should be limited to adults etc.

To clarify, I in no way support pedophilia nor do I agree that children should be having sex. My point is merely to question the implications of saying that the act of sex itself has only subjective meaning.

Now again, this was the common consensus from my previous post. I am not the one saying sex is inherently meaningless I am just speaking about the views stated in that post. If you disagree then please spell out the way in which you believe sex to have meaning.

not having meaning doesn't mean it doesn't have consequences, we forbid sex to kids because of the consequences not because of the meaning

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