Does White Privilege Exist?
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29-06-2017, 07:03 PM (This post was last modified: 29-06-2017 07:10 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 05:01 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 04:07 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  What's more important? Labels, or people?

By harping on the label given, you seem to indicate that the issue itself matters little to you.
This seems entirely false to me.
I'm trying not to put words in KUSA's mouth, but to me there are two different issues.
There is the issue with the term "white privilege".

and there is the issue that the term "white privilege" is a placeholder for.

If a person takes issue with the term "white privilege" this does not mean they care less about the issue that this term is a placeholder for than the cares of the person who is happy to use the term "white privilege"

In fact, in my case, I feel the term "white privilege" adds confusion about the underlying issue and quite possibly leads towards solutions that don't actually address the root cause. Solutions such as "affirmative action" may make sense if you believe white people have extra privileges, but may make no sense if you believe that non whites, and their cultural upbringing or their overall public image, or their society grudge leads them towards not putting their all towards making the most of opportunities that are there for all.

So, personally I think the label is extremely important. If you get it wrong then you are not keen to address the real causes of the problem. You may not even understand the problem, I don't actually understand the problem very well, but my current opinion is that "white privilege" is certainly not the problem. So I am somewhat troubled by people who wholeheartedly take on "white privilege" as being the core of the problem. I think, while their efforts to resolve the problem comes from a kind place, they are unfortunately not solving the problem because they are not addressing the root cause.

I understand the problem here in America fairly well. I'm a member of an interracial family and have myself a biracial son. I'd be surprised if you, a Kiwi who has never been here, has as solid a grip. And so I really don't care if you want to call it "white privilege", or "institutionalized racism", or the "fucking hokey-pokey". It exists, and quibbling over words in its face screams distractionism.

As for the problem itself, white privilege is both the disease and the symptom. In other words, it's a vicious cycle whereby minorities are relegated to poor neighborhoods, with low property values, meaning that the schools they send their children to aren't funded very well, meaning that the kids when they grow up find it hard to move upward into more affluent neighborhoods, meaning ... Now, being white, I was born to a family having more resources to hand, and availed myself of better schooling, and so was able to avoid a short and unhappy life. I don't have to worry about police stereotypes when I get pulled over. I don't have to worry about an HR manager importing his or her racism into my job interview. I don't have to worry about chunks of tile falling on my son from his school's ceiling while he's trying to learn reading. That is white privilege in America, and if you have not lived here, I don't regard you as qualified to opine intelligently on the matter.

Feel free to tell us about racism in NZ, though.

You and I have had this conversation before, and it's disappointing that I have to explain this dynamic to you yet again. But there it is. You let me know when you've moved to America and have become a member of an interracial family. Until then, I'm going to regard your opinion as, well, not worth a pisshole drilled in a snowbank.

Now, if you want to continue to argue semantics, you'll need to find another target for your needles. I have little patience for people who regard verbiage as meaningful when you, me, and the oak tree all know what we're talking about. You want to plant your flag and fight over the words used?

Great. While you're doing that, I'll be busy working to make sure folks in my country are treated equally. Your mileage obviously varies.
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29-06-2017, 07:49 PM
Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 06:25 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 03:45 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Now that's an interesting thing. So if I go in a Black owned and operated store I won't get eyed but a Black person would? Is that correct?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/opinions/i...index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtKIsSxNuCI


I didn't realize that Black on Black hatred was that widespread. I don't see how this translates into White privilege. It sounds like they are inflicting damage to themselves.

BTW, Chris Rock rocks! He is one of my favorite comedians.
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29-06-2017, 09:01 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 07:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I understand the problem here in America fairly well. I'm a member of an interracial family and have myself a biracial son. I'd be surprised if you, a Kiwi who has never been here, has as solid a grip. And so I really don't care if you want to call it "white privilege", or "institutionalized racism", or the "fucking hokey-pokey". It exists, and quibbling over words in its face screams distractionism.

Were we talking about USA in specific? I'm assuming when you say America you actually mean the USA rather than the continent America.
This whole idea of "White privilege" isn't just specific to USA is it?
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29-06-2017, 09:04 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 07:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And so I really don't care if you want to call it "white privilege", or "institutionalized racism", or the "fucking hokey-pokey". It exists, and quibbling over words in its face screams distractionism.
...and on this note, I don't know what it is that we are discussing, what is it that you mean when you say "White privilege", are you talking about blacks having people discriminating against them, Chinese having people discriminating against them, or are you talking about some special privileges whites have?

What are those privileges?
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29-06-2017, 09:32 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 07:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Now, being white, I was born to a family having more resources to hand, and availed myself of better schooling,
Really, I didn't realise that came with being white.
I guess poor white people aren't true white.
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29-06-2017, 10:30 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 09:01 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 07:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I understand the problem here in America fairly well. I'm a member of an interracial family and have myself a biracial son. I'd be surprised if you, a Kiwi who has never been here, has as solid a grip. And so I really don't care if you want to call it "white privilege", or "institutionalized racism", or the "fucking hokey-pokey". It exists, and quibbling over words in its face screams distractionism.

Were we talking about USA in specific? I'm assuming when you say America you actually mean the USA rather than the continent America.
This whole idea of "White privilege" isn't just specific to USA is it?

I'm in the habit of only speaking from my own experiences, and not pontificating about countries where I've never lived. So yeah, I'm talking about white privilege in America. What nation are you speaking about? Or are you working under the assumption that they all share the same racial dynamics?

(29-06-2017 09:04 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 07:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And so I really don't care if you want to call it "white privilege", or "institutionalized racism", or the "fucking hokey-pokey". It exists, and quibbling over words in its face screams distractionism.
...and on this note, I don't know what it is that we are discussing, what is it that you mean when you say "White privilege", are you talking about blacks having people discriminating against them, Chinese having people discriminating against them, or are you talking about some special privileges whites have?

What are those privileges?

I should think that what I was discussing is obvious here: your preference for addressing the verbiage used rather than the phenomenon itself.

As for the privileges whites in America enjoy, I've already listed a few. Are you practicing selective reading, or simply having a bad night?

(29-06-2017 09:32 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 07:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Now, being white, I was born to a family having more resources to hand, and availed myself of better schooling,
Really, I didn't realise that came with being white.
I guess poor white people aren't true white.

You didn't? Maybe you should educate yourself about racial disparities in income before deigning to lecture others about the issue, then? Just a thought.

The fact that there are poor whites doesn't obviate the fact that on average, blacks in America are paid significantly less. And because of the issue of school funding mentioned above, the income gap is certainly one of those privileges you apparently do not know about.

Again, if you don't know the facts of the matter under discussion, you might wish to reconsider your stance on the matter. And it's clear to me that you have a dim grasp of the facts here.

(As an aside, do you think you could actually roll your further replies into one post, instead of breaking them up like you have here? It's a pain in the ass to keep things easy-to-read, on my end, what with all the quoting and cutting-and-pasting. If you need help learning how to break up a large post into smaller chunks, let me know, I'll be happy to help.)
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30-06-2017, 03:23 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 10:30 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  (As an aside, do you think you could actually roll your further replies into one post, instead of breaking them up like you have here?
Oh FFS, I've gotta be honest, I really don't like trying to discuss topics with you.
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30-06-2017, 03:32 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 07:49 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 06:25 PM)Dr H Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/29/opinions/i...index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtKIsSxNuCI


I didn't realize that Black on Black hatred was that widespread. I don't see how this translates into White privilege. It sounds like they are inflicting damage to themselves.

BTW, Chris Rock rocks! He is one of my favorite comedians.

If all things being equal, and your skin tone determines at a glance whether or not you are given the benefit of the doubt, how is having a favorable skin tone not a privilege?

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30-06-2017, 05:16 AM
Does White Privilege Exist?
(30-06-2017 03:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(29-06-2017 07:49 PM)KUSA Wrote:  I didn't realize that Black on Black hatred was that widespread. I don't see how this translates into White privilege. It sounds like they are inflicting damage to themselves.

BTW, Chris Rock rocks! He is one of my favorite comedians.

If all things being equal, and your skin tone determines at a glance whether or not you are given the benefit of the doubt, how is having a favorable skin tone not a privilege?


Are you saying that having a white skin tone is always favorable?
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30-06-2017, 05:47 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(30-06-2017 05:16 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(30-06-2017 03:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If all things being equal, and your skin tone determines at a glance whether or not you are given the benefit of the doubt, how is having a favorable skin tone not a privilege?


Are you saying that having a white skin tone is always favorable?

Let's not be nit-picky. Remember, this white privilege thing applies *in aggregate*. Not necessarily to individuals. The assertion is that the playing field is skewed. Not that individual white people will always have a cushy time, or never experience any discrimination themselves.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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