Does White Privilege Exist?
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01-07-2017, 06:32 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(01-07-2017 04:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  Meantime please respond re how to fairly get people to participate in the economy when they've been discriminated against in some cases for centuries, *without* an affirmative action policy.
Let's take gays for example.
Catholic schools won't hire gay teachers.
You could then say that hetrosexual teachers enjoy hetrosexual privilege.
Do you:

1. Implement policies so that public schools must hire a certain quota of gay teachers in response to the Catholic discrimination against gays. And hence punish non gay applicants and potentially give the public reason to worry about the qualifications of gay teachers.

2.
Do you focus on the Catholic schools and make it illegal for them to discriminate against gay teachers.

3. ignore the problem.



I'm all for option 2.
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01-07-2017, 08:57 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(01-07-2017 06:32 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 04:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  Meantime please respond re how to fairly get people to participate in the economy when they've been discriminated against in some cases for centuries, *without* an affirmative action policy.
Let's take gays for example.
Catholic schools won't hire gay teachers.
You could then say that hetrosexual teachers enjoy hetrosexual privilege.
Do you:

1. Implement policies so that public schools must hire a certain quota of gay teachers in response to the Catholic discrimination against gays. And hence punish non gay applicants and potentially give the public reason to worry about the qualifications of gay teachers.

2.
Do you focus on the Catholic schools and make it illegal for them to discriminate against gay teachers.

3. ignore the problem.



I'm all for option 2.

I want to believe that you realize that the discrimination in question already happens, even though it is illegal. Do you actually realize that?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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01-07-2017, 09:34 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
If you're White you can't tell. It's normal.

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01-07-2017, 09:47 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
Here's an idea on how to divvy out privilege points.



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01-07-2017, 11:58 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(01-07-2017 09:47 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Here's an idea on how to divvy out privilege points.
That was funny as.
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02-07-2017, 12:48 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(01-07-2017 06:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 08:00 AM)morondog Wrote:  Now tell me, how will you prosecute against racist hiring policies? Say that you have a company that has an all-white board, and 99% white employees except for a token tea lady. You suspect them of racism but they claim that there is no racism, only the white candidates that applied for the jobs they offered are strictly the best. The absolute best. Should you take them at their word? Have an independent audit of their hiring process?
It would be a difficult thing to prove, I agree.
It would come down to complaints laid, probably by people that have attempted to be hired and have noticed that less qualified white candidates won the job above them. It would need to be investigated and go through the courts.

And in the meantime the white people carry on earning at many times the rate of the black people, the black people do not get hired and the white people talk in self-satisfied terms about how not-racist they are, and what a meritocratic society they have. And how privilege doesn't exist.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-07-2017, 12:52 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(01-07-2017 02:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 02:27 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  but overall everyone benefits more from increased cultural diversity over hegemony.
Sure, but everyone loses when we have racist policies.
So creating a false environment does not solve the problem. Implementing more racist policies does not solve racism.

This is the real world, not a hypothetical.

So long as inequality exists, if we seek to address that, we'll have to have laws and policies that add extra weight to the side of the scale that needs the help. Yes, purely by definition, it is 'racist'; but that ignores the fact that balancing scales that are askew is going to require fudging the scale at first, until it can manage it's own equilibrium. Affirmative action is not the be-all-end-all of racial equality in the work place, but it was (and still is) needed to give minorities access to socio-economic opportunities that would otherwise be denied to them.

As it turns out, just asking nicely for racist people and policies to just be less racist doesn't actually work.

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02-07-2017, 01:00 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(02-07-2017 12:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-07-2017 06:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It would be a difficult thing to prove, I agree.
It would come down to complaints laid, probably by people that have attempted to be hired and have noticed that less qualified white candidates won the job above them. It would need to be investigated and go through the courts.

And in the meantime the white people carry on earning at many times the rate of the black people, the black people do not get hired and the white people talk in self-satisfied terms about how not-racist they are, and what a meritocratic society they have. And how privilege doesn't exist.

Plus if you are trying to dig yourself out of generational and institutionalized racism, things like making sure minorities can also get access to good paying jobs can help them pull themselves up and place themselves and their children on a higher socio-economic trajectory. Better jobs earn more pay, that allows for more education and better opportunities for their children; it's a positive feedback loop, much in the same way segregation, lack of education, and generational poverty is.

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02-07-2017, 01:47 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(01-07-2017 06:32 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Let's take gays for example.
Catholic schools won't hire gay teachers.
You could then say that heterosexual teachers enjoy heterosexual privilege...

Nope. You couldn't. This is not a case of hetero privilege, but one of homosexual oppression and/or persecution. Two different things altogether.


—Incidentally, if anyone wants to read a stomach-churning report by a Catholic apologist in favour of refusing to employ homosexual teachers in Catholic schools, check this out: Should Catholic Schools Be Allowed to Discriminate?.

It's written by some arsewipe named Trent Horn, who serves as a staff apologist for Catholic Answers and specialises in teaching Catholics to "graciously and persuasively" engage those who disagree with them.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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02-07-2017, 02:15 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(29-06-2017 03:46 PM)Stevil Wrote:  ...
My concern with "affirmative action" is not restricted to its impact on whites.

I have provided twice in this thread my example where sick people in Malaysia seek out non Malay doctors.
My understanding of this was by being told by a Chinese person.
So now I have done a quick internet search

https://practicality.wordpress.com/2008/...-malaysia/
...

As a local, I can confirm that this is a thing over here.

Also, more than once I've asked delegates (in SG and MY) why they chose our training course rather than a competitor's ... t'was because we had the white trainer (namely, me).

Much to do with perceptions as a remnant of colonialism, methinks.

Blush

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