Does White Privilege Exist?
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27-06-2017, 11:03 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(27-06-2017 10:12 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Some non whites benefit in some ways from well intentioned initiatives designed to combat inequality.
The problem with this is that it creates resentment, it also sets up a race to fail. They get rewards without deserving them, they get jobs that they aren't qualified for, so they then suck at those jobs and others then say oh don't hire that race cause they suck.
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28-06-2017, 01:16 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
Ruby, I kinda get your confusion. I'm a fairly liberal guy and some of the time... I used to wonder if this stuff could actually be true. Even now sometimes I come across stuff and I'm like "Huh???" because it never crossed my mind that people could act like that.

As an example, let's leave the issue of race and talk about something that you may have experience with, and maybe you can then appreciate something of the uphill battle that many black people face just trying to get people to recognise that there's a problem.

A few weeks ago I was chatting to my girlfriend and the topic of cat-calling came up. You know, when a random stranger walks up to you in the street and says "I'd like to fuck you all day long, baby". Sexual harassment. Now call me naive, I have never experienced that firstly, and secondly, I thought only crazy people did stuff like that. She informed me that no, regardless of race, class, poverty or wealth, men have *always* said these things to her and to all her friends. At a traffic light. At a shopping mall. People who are outwardly respectable - lawyers, doctors, shopkeepers... It sounds crazy right?

See, the thing is, my experience of life... I'd never either been harassed, nor seen any of my friends get harassed in that way. How did I go through my whole life and never see it? I even asked her "but... I've never seen it when I'm around" - and yes, apparently if she's clearly with a guy the shitheads don't do that kind of thing.

See, that's the difference between having a lived experience and experiencing something because people tell you about it. I have this sneaking suspicion that maybe she's exagerrating. Yet... what if she's not lying? What if everything she told me is true? She is the one who had these experiences. I didn't. If everything she told me *is* true, and not an exagerration, then I am the one who's being a dick, because on top of the actual events happening, I'm not listening when she tries to tell me and on top of that telling her she's exagerrating and it's not that bad.

That's what this white privilege business looks like to people from outside the argument, and why it does trigger strong emotions. You feel like you're being hated just for trying to understand, whereas someone who's lived that experience - you can see why they'd feel like you were essentially patting them on the head and telling them to lose the chip on their shoulder?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-06-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
PS: Regarding why rich black people might still bitch about race issues.

Firstly, it's something that's insidious in the workplace. Can you imagine how shit it is to experience discrimination in such a setting? And sometimes it's blatant, and sometimes it's hidden. Sometimes it's being passed over for promotion, sometimes it's people treating you like you're an idiot because they think you got the job "because of diversity". If someone did that shit to me I'd sure as FUCK make a noise about it.

Secondly, even rich black people do experience discrimination in life in general. Getting pulled over by cops more often. Not just "more" often but so often that it's a part of life. Now given the Philando Castille incident, can you appreciate how scary that must be? I can't really comment on the USA, but I'm sure that much like South Africa, there are myriad other ways (not just cops) in which black people do experience discrimination regardless of class.

In South Africa, we are a black majority country. Yet still white people are "in charge" - because in South Africa more than any other nation wealth is distributed on racial lines. This causes extreme resentment - justifiably so. And yet even in South Africa there's a narrative that all of us white folks got our wealth and privilege by sheer hard work, and the notion of having a privileged start in life is pure liberal hippie bullshit... People sincerely hold these views.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-06-2017, 05:30 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(27-06-2017 11:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(27-06-2017 10:12 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Some non whites benefit in some ways from well intentioned initiatives designed to combat inequality.
The problem with this is that it creates resentment, it also sets up a race to fail. They get rewards without deserving them, they get jobs that they aren't qualified for, so they then suck at those jobs and others then say oh don't hire that race cause they suck.

Except that a number of studies have shown that affirmative-action hires generally do just as well on the job as others. This article is, admittedly, from the Huffington Post, a liberal-leaning source. It goes into some detail about how black and latino students perform in colleges where they have lower mean SAT scores than the white students, but it has this bit in it which refers to some of the studies of actual performance in the work place:

..."there is no compelling research that supports the view that black employees in the wider workforce who get hired via affirmative action are inferior. Quite the contrary, comprehensive studies of affirmative action and hiring by researchers like Major Coleman and Harry Holzer and David Neumark find no significant difference in work performance between employees who entered jobs via affirmative action and those who entered via traditional hiring practices."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-a-...13026.html

My area (Boston) is full of highly intelligent and accomplished people of all races, who are well qualified for the jobs they hold irrespective of affirmative action. However, Boston is rightly called a racist city and we have fewer black professionals than we should because of that. Black people getting called the N regularly, being treated disrespectfully in stores and restaurants, etc. A couple of months ago I was listening to an NPR radio piece where they'd been recording an interview on the street, (ironically) about racism in Boston, and during the interview a passing driver screamed the N word at the interview subject.

I live, not in Boston itself, but in the most diverse town in my state, have been here for almost 20 years and have seen its demographics change from mostly white to whites being about 43% of the population. One of the first things that happened when there was an influx of people of color was that the white people in charge of things like the public schools stopped investing as much time and energy, now that there were "those people's" kids involved (a lot more white kids enrolled in private schools), they cut stuff like the school bus service and instrumental music and art, and test scores plummeted. Fortunately there was a reaction to this, the school system was revamped, and test scores are rising again. And the town has adjusted, not perfectly, but better than Boston has, IMO.

When workplaces or communities or colleges diversify, there are tons of ways to make sure the new employees (residents, students) know that they're not welcome. Some people are ornery enough to draw energy from this situation and fight it or ignore it. Not everyone is; we're social animals and want acceptance, even when to gain that acceptance, we have to assent to others' (wrong) ideas of our appropriate place in an organization.
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28-06-2017, 06:19 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
I haven't read through the entire seven pages of responses, but here's my take on it, with real-world examples.

Example Number 1: I'm a middle-aged white male. I have been turned down for jobs and contracts specifically because I'm a middle-aged white male. (I'm retired now so this is going back a few years.) In the words of one HR dweeb, I was "too old, too white and too male." In fact, the only reason I was given an interview in the first place is because my name could be mistaken for a woman's name. (It's one of those androgynous names, like Kelly or Taylor or Lyn or Michael or Jordan.) Had the interviewer known I was male, by her own admittance I would not have got an interview in the first place.

Example Number 2: Last year my SO and I did some travelling to Europe. In Canada's busiest airport, we were subject to a hand-swab by security personnel. The people that I personally saw swabbed consisted of 6 white people and 1 person of Middle Eastern descent. All the white people went through the process without complaint. The Middle Easter fellow made a huge scene about how he was being singled out because of his skin colour, conveniently ignoring the fact that the white people around him were checked too.

Example Number 3: It is official hiring policy in both the Provincial and Federal departments to give preference to non-white females. Here's a chart directly from a Government of Canada website, that shows that the latest figures (from 2015) have men being explicitly disadvantaged when it comes to being hired, a trend that started in 1998: [Image: demo15-02-eng.jpg]

I have plenty more.

In short, while there may be some areas where "white privilege" is a thing, it seems to be more of a rallying cry for power from other "groups" than it is a serious problem.

[/dons asbestos suit]
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28-06-2017, 07:19 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
Does white privilege exist? Yes and no.

Yes there is a huge climate far too much in America that fosters a long term and systemic failure to see the negative affects of the economy and court systems on minorities. But, that also does not mean say, poor rural whites are well off.

Poverty exists in white communities too. But on average poverty hurts minorities on average at a higher rate.

If you are white, for example, and cannot understand the usage of "Black Lives Matter", and stupidly think they are claiming or white supporters of such, are claiming black lives matter more" which is not the meaning of it, then you are ignorant and are living in a privileged bubble. If you are white and complain about non violent migrants fleeing poverty or war, that too makes you ignorant. If you cannot understand that LGBT rights are not about advocating public orgies, again, you are privileged and an utter fucking moron.

But there are also poor and middle class white liberals who are hurt too, but accept that there is a rate in which minority segments of our population are negatively effected by the economy at a far higher rate.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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28-06-2017, 08:23 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
Consider this- a poor white man and a poor black man. Given that both have the same opportunities presented to them, a black person will have to fight the additional biases against them in every situation where the white man will not. Both have biases working against them, but a black person has the additional bias of their skin color working against them. So given that a white man and a black man each reach the same position in life, the black person will likely have had to work harder to overcome the biases working against them. That's difference is called white privilege. It exists in interactions with police, it exists in job interviews, it exists in education opportunities, it exists in the doctor's office, it exists just about everywhere.

Those biases have been demonstrated time and again in studies. They exist, and it's not something that is simply made up or exaggerated.

I think that every person has some kind of racial biases that they encounter in their own mind. It's those who recognize their biases and overcome them when they encounter them that are not racist. Not simply "having a black friend". You can have black friends and still be a racist. It's because of those biases, and if you don't acknowledge them and work to overcome them, then you're a racist.
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28-06-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 07:19 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  If you cannot understand that LGBT rights are not about advocating public orgies, again, you are privileged and an utter fucking moron.

That's not to say that public orgies aren't like... the best idea ever, right? Tongue
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28-06-2017, 09:01 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
Maybe, but not for long.
China is about to reassume it's position as the largest, most important, most productive, most well-educated, and country with the best infrastructure on the planet.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-06-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
I think several different aspects are being mixed up, and things don't cancel other things out.

Yes it exists, though your mileage may vary IMO (i.e. if you're poor and white, you probably don't really count). And the fact that some abuse the term and use it as an excuse to treat people like shit doesn't mean it's not real. It just means the people using it as an excuse to treat people like shit are assholes, and you can be an asshole no matter who you are. Also pointing out that we've had a black President or that there are rich black people doesn't cancel out white privalege either.
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