Does White Privilege Exist?
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28-06-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 01:39 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(28-06-2017 01:16 PM)JesseB Wrote:  While I agree with you, there's a decided difference between that and what's going on at Evergreen college for example. There is a problem here, and it's a big problem. I haven't denied at any point that racism exists, in fact I've explained how it exists in more places and cultures than people seem willing to admit. The problem isn't that we shouldn't allow and promote equal protection under the law, equal access to the justice system and other things my brain hasn't fully started up yet this morning. The problem is some people are swinging so far to the other side that they don't realize they are swinging too far in the other direction and are just as fascist dictatorial oppressive bullying abusive as the Nazis they love to scream about and punch (and for the record they aren't actually punching Nazis they just scream your a Nazi at anyone who questions their doctrine and then proceeds to begin with the punching either verbal or literal, you can find examples of both, I've met REAL Nazis I've never met one that openly said that's what they were though, just walked into this customers house and saw Nazi flags n shit all over and was like "oh fuck" I sure as hell didn't punch him I was too concerned about getting out alive).

I only got involved in this discussion because Ruby was clearly being attacked and bullied and I could see no reasonable justification for it. If I was at Evergreen I'd prolly stand up against that madness too, it might even cost me my life to do so, but these kids are out of their fucking minds (I say kids when in reality they are my fucking age!), their Social Justice thing is a cult it's a faith based belief system that cherry picks data, outright lies, demands acceptance on faith, is intolerant of any questions The only difference between it and religion is the existence of a godlike figure, well in this case the ideology is the godlike figure. I can't stand by and watch someone whom I've talked to quite a lot, someone I kinda like and think is a pretty ok person (and I don't think that of many people) have their words twisted and get attacked for things they never said and don't think. And fuck belief I hate the word belief, what you think is what fucking matters, belief implies you hold a thought more strongly than you aught and usually without proper justification for such. I don't "believe" in fucking climate change, I understand the fucking science and know that it is accurate and reliable. AND I can properly question when I see things that aren't reliable and not just swallow it cause someone put global warming labels all over it. From my perspective Ideology is the same as religion, and what the world needs is people to abandon both start fucking thinking for themselves.

And if you're wondering why I mention stuff that's going on outside the forums (as if the world outside the forums is somehow irrelevant), it's because I suspect some of the attacks against Ruby stem from that disgusting ideology.

I would agree with Yak you'll make far more headway on racism by working on the general wealth inequality across the board in the long run. The more everyone spends time together, and the less barriers there are for achieving one's goals, the more people will be forced to see we aren't as different as racist parents want to tell us there is.

I guess that's what I get for skipping the majority of the thread- I didn't realize Ruby was being attacked.

I certainly didn't intend any of my posts to attack anyone. Just to try to explain what privilege means and how it exists.

No worries Emma, even rocket was like "we prolly should ease up" or something like that. It was getting out of hand. That's why I jumped in, I hate these kinds of topics cause I don't like dealing with deep Ideological people, they can't be reasoned with, in fact they are generally far harder to reach than religious people. And these topics tend to attract deeply ideological people, and if you aren't 100% identical to them in every way, lets say you only agree with them 99.9% of the time well then they think you're the enemy and will attack you. Frankly that's no way to win people over, Ruby had questions and concerns one's I've heard before and they aren't without good cause for questions. She provided an opportunity for people to help her learn, but she's not the type of person who's gonna accept things without evidence especially when those things seem at times to conflict with reality (meaning ideological zombies need not apply). I've seen a lot of good posts here from people too who didn't jump on her and call her a racist (well it was implied several times, and that's really not cool), so it wasn't a total waste of time.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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28-06-2017, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2017 03:08 PM by Emma.)
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 02:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-06-2017 08:23 AM)Emma Wrote:  Consider this- a poor white man and a poor black man. Given that both have the same opportunities presented to them, a black person will have to fight the additional biases against them in every situation where the white man will not. Both have biases working against them, but a black person has the additional bias of their skin color working against them.
What are these biases, what is the possible causes and how can this be turned around?

If it is about biases then it certainly isn't "white priviledge" this is somehow pointing at the whites as the cause, suggesting we are giving each other secret handshakes and winks and favouring each other for jobs etc.
There is no secret white privilege society as far as I know.

If the problem is generalisations about blacks then it is to do with the blacks as a group and their reputations, it isn't "privileged whites" putting them in this situation.
It is human nature to generalise, to come to some kind of judgement on a stranger.
If blacks are causing the lion share of crimes then people will be weary of blacks.
The thing about being part of the "black group" is that it isn't something you can hide. An Atheist can hide their non belief, a black can't hide their skin colour.

But if the problem is that a high percentage of blacks commit crimes, then the solution is to try to prevent blacks from committing crimes rather than to gift blacks positions in schools that others need to compete for, or jobs that others need to compete for.
If blacks are committing the crimes then why is this happening? Is it because they are poor? Is it because of their upbringing? Is it because they have a grudge against society? It is definitely not because of white privilege.

I feel like I have stated several times what white privilege is and it's not the things you are denying exist and it also isn't really about crime rate.

I can't seem to understand what you think white privilege means- so can you please tell me what you think the term means?

Also- for a list of the biases, a simple google search will help clarify. Wikipedia has some a brief list of racial discrimination issues with references.

Quote:United States[edit]
History[edit]
European colonialism created a system of white supremacy and racist ideology, which led to a structure of domination that privileges whiteness over blackness. Biological differences in skin color were used as a justification for the enslavement and oppression of Africans, developing a social hierarchy that placed whites at the top and blacks at the bottom. Slaves with lighter complexion were allowed to engage in less strenuous tasks, like domestic duties, while the darker slaves participated in hard labor, which was more than likely outdoors.[50] African American with a partial white heritage were seen to be smarter and superior to dark-skinned blacks, giving them broader opportunities for education and the acquisition of land and property.[51]

Business[edit]
A 2014 meta-analysis of racial discrimination in product markets found extensive evidence of minority applicants being quoted higher prices for products.[4] A 1995 study found that car dealers "quoted significantly lower prices to white males than to black or female test buyers using identical, scripted bargaining strategies."[52] A 2013 study found that eBay sellers of iPods received 21 percent more offers if a white hand held the iPod in the photo than a black hand.[53]

Criminal justice system[edit]
Research suggests that police practices, such as racial profiling, over-policing in areas populated by minorities and in-group bias may result in disproportionately high numbers of racial minorities among crime suspects.[54][55][56][57] Research also suggests that there may be possible discrimination by the judicial system, which contributes to a higher number of convictions for racial minorities.[58][59][60][61][62][63] A 2012 study found that "(i) juries formed from all-white jury pools convict black defendants significantly (16 percentage points) more often than white defendants, and (ii) this gap in conviction rates is entirely eliminated when the jury pool includes at least one black member."[60] Research has found evidence of in-group bias, where "black (white) juveniles who are randomly assigned to black (white) judges are more likely to get incarcerated (as opposed to being placed on probation), and they receive longer sentences."[62] In-group bias has also been observed when it comes to traffic citations, as black and white cops are more likely to cite out-groups.[56] A 2016 paper by Roland G. Fryer, Jr, found that while there are no racial differences in lethal use of police force, blacks and Hispanics are significantly more likely to experience non-lethal use of force.[64] Reports by the Department of Justice have also found that police officers in Baltimore, Maryland, and Ferguson, Missouri, systemically stop, search (in some cases strip-searching) and harass black residents.[65][66] A January 2017 report by the DOJ also found that the Chicago Police Department had "unconstitutionally engaged in a pattern of excessive and deadly force" and that police "have no regard for the sanctity of life when it comes to people of color".[67]

In criminal sentencing, medium to dark-skinned African Americans are likely to receive sentences 2.6 years longer than those of whites or light-skinned African Americans. When a white victim is involved, those with more "black" features are likely to receive a much more severe punishment.[68]

A 2013 report by the American Civil Liberties Union found that blacks were "3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana possession", even though "blacks and whites use drugs, including marijuana, at similar rates."[69]

A 2016 analysis by the New York Times "of tens of thousands of disciplinary cases against inmates in 2015, hundreds of pages of internal reports and three years of parole decisions found that racial disparities were embedded in the prison experience in New York."[70] Blacks and Latinos were sent more frequently to solitary and held there for longer durations than whites.[70] The New York Times analysis found that the disparities were the greatest for violations where the prison guards had lots of discretion, such as disobeying orders, but smaller for violations that required physical evidence, such as possessing contraband.[70]

A 2016 report by the Sarasota Herald-Tribune found that Florida judges sentence black defendants to far longer prison sentences than whites with the same background.[71] For the same drug possession crimes, blacks were sentenced to double the time of whites.[71] Blacks were given longer sentences in 60 percent of felony cases, 68 percent of the most serious first-degree crimes, 45 percent of burglary cases and 30 percent of battery cases.[71] For third-degree felonies (the least serious types of felonies in Florida), white judges sentenced blacks to twenty percent more time than whites, whereas black judges gave more balanced sentences.[71]

Education[edit]
In 1954, Brown vs. the Board of Education was passed to ensure integrated, equal schools be accessible to all children unbiased to skin color. Currently in the United States, not all state funded schools are equally funded. Schools are funded by the "federal, state, and local governments" while "states play a large and increasing role in education funding".[72] "Property taxes support most of the funding that local government provides for education".[72] Schools located in lower income areas receive a lower level of funding and schools located in higher income areas receiving greater funding for education all based on property taxes. The U.S. Department of Education reports that "many high-poverty schools receive less than their fair share of state and local funding, leaving students in high-poverty schools with fewer resources than schools attended by their wealthier peers".[73] The U.S. Department of Education also reports this fact affects "more than 40% of low-income schools".[73] Children of color are much more likely to suffer from poverty than white children.

A 2015 study using correspondence tests "found that when considering requests from prospective students seeking mentoring in the future, faculty were significantly more responsive to White males than to all other categories of students, collectively, particularly in higher-paying disciplines and private institutions".[74] Through affirmative action, elite colleges consider a broader range of experiences for minority applicants.[75]

The phrase "brown paper bag test", also known as a paper bag party, along with the "ruler test" refers to a ritual once practiced by certain African-American sororities and fraternities who would not let anyone into the group whose skin tone was darker than a paper bag.[76] Spike Lee's film School Daze satirized this practice at historically black colleges and universities.[77] Along with the "paper bag test", guidelines for acceptance among the lighter ranks included the "comb test" and "pencil test", which tested the coarseness of one's hair, and the "flashlight test", which tested a person's profile to make sure their features measured up or were close enough to those of the Caucasian race.[76]

Health[edit]
A 1999 study found that doctors treat black and white patients differently, even when their medical files were statistically identical.[78] When shown patient histories and asked to make judgments about heart disease, the doctors were much less likely to recommend cardiac catheterization (a helpful procedure) to black patients.[78]

Housing[edit]
A 2014 meta-analysis found extensive evidence of racial discrimination in the American housing market.[4] Minority applicants for housing needed to make many more enquiries to view properties.[4] Geographical steering of African-Americans in US housing remained significant.[4] A 2003 study finds "evidence that agents interpret an initial housing request as an indication of a customer's preferences, but also are more likely to withhold a house from all customers when it is in an integrated suburban neighborhood (redlining). Moreover, agents' marketing efforts increase with asking price for white, but not for black, customers; blacks are more likely than whites to see houses in suburban, integrated areas (steering); and the houses agents show are more likely to deviate from the initial request when the customer is black than when the customer is white. These three findings are consistent with the possibility that agents act upon the belief that some types of transactions are relatively unlikely for black customers (statistical discrimination)."[79]

A report by the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development where the department sent African-Americans and whites to look at apartments found that African-Americans were shown fewer apartments to rent and houses for sale.[80]

A 2017 study found that "that applications [for Airbnb housing] from guests with distinctively African American names are 16 percent less likely to be accepted relative to identical guests with distinctively white names".[81]

Labor market[edit]
Several meta-analyses find extensive evidence of ethnic and racial discrimination in hiring in the American labor market.[4][5][6] A 2016 meta-analysis of 738 correspondence tests – tests where identical CVs for stereotypically black and white names were sent to employers – in 43 separate studies conducted in OECD countries between 1990 and 2015 finds that there is extensive racial discrimination in hiring decisions in Europe and North-America.[5] These correspondence tests showed that equivalent minority candidates need to send around 50% more applications to be invited for an interview than majority candidates.[5][82] A study that examine the job applications of actual people provided with identical résumés and similar interview training showed that African-American applicants with no criminal record were offered jobs at a rate as low as white applicants who had criminal records.[83]

Research suggests that light-skinned African American women have higher salaries and greater job satisfaction than dark-skinned women.[84] Being "too black" has recently been acknowledged by the U.S. Federal courts in an employment discrimination case under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In Etienne v. Spanish Lake Truck & Casino Plaza, LLC the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, determined that an employee who was told on several occasions that her manager thought she was "too black" to do various tasks, found that the issue of the employee's skin color rather than race itself, played a key role in an employer's decision to keep the employee from advancing.[85]

Media[edit]
The media is responsible for influencing beliefs regarding ideas of beauty in the African American community. Mass media productions often perpetuate discrimination based on skin color.[citation needed] African Americans possessing lighter skin complexion and "European features", such as lighter eyes, and smaller noses and lips have more opportunities in the media industry. For example, film producers hire lighter-skinned African Americans more often, television producers choose lighter skinned cast members, and magazine editors choose African American models that resemble European features.[86] As a result, the media industry sends the message that African Americans with Eurocentric features are more likely to be accepted, diminishing the status of darker-skinned African Americans.[citation needed]

In regards to the magazine industry, African American women are rarely showcased in the most popular magazines.[citation needed] Therefore, African American girls have difficultly identifying with the models showcased in these magazines, because they do not represent the type of women that they come into contact with in their own communities. Recent studies have indicated that the number of racially biased advertisements in magazines have increased over the years. A content analysis conducted by Scott and Neptune (1997) shows that less than one percent of advertisements in major magazines featured African American models. When African Americans did appear in advertisements they were mainly portrayed as athletes, entertainers or unskilled laborers. In addition, seventy percent of the advertisements that features animal print included African American women. Animal print reinforces the stereotypes that African Americans are animalistic in nature, sexually active, less educated, have lower income, and extremely concerned with personal appearances.[87]

Concerning African American males in the media, darker skinned men are more likely to be portrayed as violent or more threatening, influencing the public perception of African American men. Since dark-skinned males are more likely to be linked to crime and misconduct, many people develop preconceived notions about the characteristics of black men.[88]

Politics[edit]
A 2011 study found that white state legislators of both political parties were less likely to respond to constituents with African-American names.[89] A 2013 study found that in response to e-mail correspondence from a putatively black alias, "nonblack legislators were markedly less likely to respond when their political incentives to do so were diminished, black legislators typically continued to respond even when doing so promised little political reward. Black legislators thus appear substantially more intrinsically motivated to advance blacks' interests."[90]

Some research suggests that white voters' voting behavior is motivated by racial threat. A 2016 study, for instance, found that white Chicago voters' turnout decreased when public housing was reconstructed and 25,000 African Americans displaced. This suggest that white voters' turnout decreased due to not living in proximity to African-Americans.[91]

Voter ID laws have brought on accusations of racial discrimination. In a 2014 review by the Government Accountability Office of the academic literature, three studies out of five found that voter ID laws reduced minority turnout whereas two studies found no significant impact.[92] Disparate impact may also be reflected in access to information about voter ID laws. A 2015 experimental study found that election officials queried about voter ID laws are more likely to respond to emails from a non-Latino white name (70.5% response rate) than a Latino name (64.8% response rate), though response accuracy was similar across groups.[93] Studies have also analyzed racial differences in ID requests rates. A 2012 study in the city of Boston found that black and Hispanic voters were more likely to be asked for ID during the 2008 election. According to exit polls, 23% of whites, 33% of blacks, and 38% of Hispanics were asked for ID, though this effect is partially attributed to black and Hispanics preferring non-peak voting hours when election officials inspected a greater portion of IDs. Precinct differences also confound the data as black and Hispanic voters tended to vote at black and Hispanic-majority precincts.[94] A 2010 study of the 2006 midterm election in New Mexico found that Hispanics were more likely to incur ID requests while early voters, women, and non-Hispanics were less likely to incur requests.[95] A 2009 study of the 2006 midterm election nationwide found that 47% of white voters reported being asked to show photo identification at the polls, compared with 54% of Hispanics and 55% of African Americans."[96] Very few were however denied the vote as a result of voter identification requests.[96] A 2015 study found that turnout among blacks in Georgia was generally higher since the state began enforcing its strict voter ID law.[97] A 2016 study by University of California, San Diego researchers found that voter ID laws "have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of Hispanics, Blacks, and mixed-race Americans in primaries and general elections."[98]

Research by University of Oxford economist Evan Soltas and Stanford political scientist David Broockman suggests that voters act upon racially-discriminatory tastes.[99]
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28-06-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 03:03 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(28-06-2017 02:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  What are these biases, what is the possible causes and how can this be turned around?

If it is about biases then it certainly isn't "white priviledge" this is somehow pointing at the whites as the cause, suggesting we are giving each other secret handshakes and winks and favouring each other for jobs etc.
There is no secret white privilege society as far as I know.

If the problem is generalisations about blacks then it is to do with the blacks as a group and their reputations, it isn't "privileged whites" putting them in this situation.
It is human nature to generalise, to come to some kind of judgement on a stranger.
If blacks are causing the lion share of crimes then people will be weary of blacks.
The thing about being part of the "black group" is that it isn't something you can hide. An Atheist can hide their non belief, a black can't hide their skin colour.

But if the problem is that a high percentage of blacks commit crimes, then the solution is to try to prevent blacks from committing crimes rather than to gift blacks positions in schools that others need to compete for, or jobs that others need to compete for.
If blacks are committing the crimes then why is this happening? Is it because they are poor? Is it because of their upbringing? Is it because they have a grudge against society? It is definitely not because of white privilege.

I feel like I have stated several times what white privilege is and it's not the things you are denying exist and it also isn't really about crime rate.

I can't seem to understand what you think white privilege means- so can you please tell me what you think the term means?

Also- for a list of the biases, a simple google search will help clarify. Wikipedia has some a brief list of racial discrimination issues with references.

Quote:United States[edit]
History[edit]
European colonialism created a system of white supremacy and racist ideology, which led to a structure of domination that privileges whiteness over blackness. Biological differences in skin color were used as a justification for the enslavement and oppression of Africans, developing a social hierarchy that placed whites at the top and blacks at the bottom. Slaves with lighter complexion were allowed to engage in less strenuous tasks, like domestic duties, while the darker slaves participated in hard labor, which was more than likely outdoors.[50] African American with a partial white heritage were seen to be smarter and superior to dark-skinned blacks, giving them broader opportunities for education and the acquisition of land and property.[51]

Business[edit]
A 2014 meta-analysis of racial discrimination in product markets found extensive evidence of minority applicants being quoted higher prices for products.[4] A 1995 study found that car dealers "quoted significantly lower prices to white males than to black or female test buyers using identical, scripted bargaining strategies."[52] A 2013 study found that eBay sellers of iPods received 21 percent more offers if a white hand held the iPod in the photo than a black hand.[53]

Criminal justice system[edit]
Research suggests that police practices, such as racial profiling, over-policing in areas populated by minorities and in-group bias may result in disproportionately high numbers of racial minorities among crime suspects.[54][55][56][57] Research also suggests that there may be possible discrimination by the judicial system, which contributes to a higher number of convictions for racial minorities.[58][59][60][61][62][63] A 2012 study found that "(i) juries formed from all-white jury pools convict black defendants significantly (16 percentage points) more often than white defendants, and (ii) this gap in conviction rates is entirely eliminated when the jury pool includes at least one black member."[60] Research has found evidence of in-group bias, where "black (white) juveniles who are randomly assigned to black (white) judges are more likely to get incarcerated (as opposed to being placed on probation), and they receive longer sentences."[62] In-group bias has also been observed when it comes to traffic citations, as black and white cops are more likely to cite out-groups.[56] A 2016 paper by Roland G. Fryer, Jr, found that while there are no racial differences in lethal use of police force, blacks and Hispanics are significantly more likely to experience non-lethal use of force.[64] Reports by the Department of Justice have also found that police officers in Baltimore, Maryland, and Ferguson, Missouri, systemically stop, search (in some cases strip-searching) and harass black residents.[65][66] A January 2017 report by the DOJ also found that the Chicago Police Department had "unconstitutionally engaged in a pattern of excessive and deadly force" and that police "have no regard for the sanctity of life when it comes to people of color".[67]

In criminal sentencing, medium to dark-skinned African Americans are likely to receive sentences 2.6 years longer than those of whites or light-skinned African Americans. When a white victim is involved, those with more "black" features are likely to receive a much more severe punishment.[68]

A 2013 report by the American Civil Liberties Union found that blacks were "3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana possession", even though "blacks and whites use drugs, including marijuana, at similar rates."[69]

A 2016 analysis by the New York Times "of tens of thousands of disciplinary cases against inmates in 2015, hundreds of pages of internal reports and three years of parole decisions found that racial disparities were embedded in the prison experience in New York."[70] Blacks and Latinos were sent more frequently to solitary and held there for longer durations than whites.[70] The New York Times analysis found that the disparities were the greatest for violations where the prison guards had lots of discretion, such as disobeying orders, but smaller for violations that required physical evidence, such as possessing contraband.[70]

A 2016 report by the Sarasota Herald-Tribune found that Florida judges sentence black defendants to far longer prison sentences than whites with the same background.[71] For the same drug possession crimes, blacks were sentenced to double the time of whites.[71] Blacks were given longer sentences in 60 percent of felony cases, 68 percent of the most serious first-degree crimes, 45 percent of burglary cases and 30 percent of battery cases.[71] For third-degree felonies (the least serious types of felonies in Florida), white judges sentenced blacks to twenty percent more time than whites, whereas black judges gave more balanced sentences.[71]

Education[edit]
In 1954, Brown vs. the Board of Education was passed to ensure integrated, equal schools be accessible to all children unbiased to skin color. Currently in the United States, not all state funded schools are equally funded. Schools are funded by the "federal, state, and local governments" while "states play a large and increasing role in education funding".[72] "Property taxes support most of the funding that local government provides for education".[72] Schools located in lower income areas receive a lower level of funding and schools located in higher income areas receiving greater funding for education all based on property taxes. The U.S. Department of Education reports that "many high-poverty schools receive less than their fair share of state and local funding, leaving students in high-poverty schools with fewer resources than schools attended by their wealthier peers".[73] The U.S. Department of Education also reports this fact affects "more than 40% of low-income schools".[73] Children of color are much more likely to suffer from poverty than white children.

A 2015 study using correspondence tests "found that when considering requests from prospective students seeking mentoring in the future, faculty were significantly more responsive to White males than to all other categories of students, collectively, particularly in higher-paying disciplines and private institutions".[74] Through affirmative action, elite colleges consider a broader range of experiences for minority applicants.[75]

The phrase "brown paper bag test", also known as a paper bag party, along with the "ruler test" refers to a ritual once practiced by certain African-American sororities and fraternities who would not let anyone into the group whose skin tone was darker than a paper bag.[76] Spike Lee's film School Daze satirized this practice at historically black colleges and universities.[77] Along with the "paper bag test", guidelines for acceptance among the lighter ranks included the "comb test" and "pencil test", which tested the coarseness of one's hair, and the "flashlight test", which tested a person's profile to make sure their features measured up or were close enough to those of the Caucasian race.[76]

Health[edit]
A 1999 study found that doctors treat black and white patients differently, even when their medical files were statistically identical.[78] When shown patient histories and asked to make judgments about heart disease, the doctors were much less likely to recommend cardiac catheterization (a helpful procedure) to black patients.[78]

Housing[edit]
A 2014 meta-analysis found extensive evidence of racial discrimination in the American housing market.[4] Minority applicants for housing needed to make many more enquiries to view properties.[4] Geographical steering of African-Americans in US housing remained significant.[4] A 2003 study finds "evidence that agents interpret an initial housing request as an indication of a customer's preferences, but also are more likely to withhold a house from all customers when it is in an integrated suburban neighborhood (redlining). Moreover, agents' marketing efforts increase with asking price for white, but not for black, customers; blacks are more likely than whites to see houses in suburban, integrated areas (steering); and the houses agents show are more likely to deviate from the initial request when the customer is black than when the customer is white. These three findings are consistent with the possibility that agents act upon the belief that some types of transactions are relatively unlikely for black customers (statistical discrimination)."[79]

A report by the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development where the department sent African-Americans and whites to look at apartments found that African-Americans were shown fewer apartments to rent and houses for sale.[80]

A 2017 study found that "that applications [for Airbnb housing] from guests with distinctively African American names are 16 percent less likely to be accepted relative to identical guests with distinctively white names".[81]

Labor market[edit]
Several meta-analyses find extensive evidence of ethnic and racial discrimination in hiring in the American labor market.[4][5][6] A 2016 meta-analysis of 738 correspondence tests – tests where identical CVs for stereotypically black and white names were sent to employers – in 43 separate studies conducted in OECD countries between 1990 and 2015 finds that there is extensive racial discrimination in hiring decisions in Europe and North-America.[5] These correspondence tests showed that equivalent minority candidates need to send around 50% more applications to be invited for an interview than majority candidates.[5][82] A study that examine the job applications of actual people provided with identical résumés and similar interview training showed that African-American applicants with no criminal record were offered jobs at a rate as low as white applicants who had criminal records.[83]

Research suggests that light-skinned African American women have higher salaries and greater job satisfaction than dark-skinned women.[84] Being "too black" has recently been acknowledged by the U.S. Federal courts in an employment discrimination case under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In Etienne v. Spanish Lake Truck & Casino Plaza, LLC the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, determined that an employee who was told on several occasions that her manager thought she was "too black" to do various tasks, found that the issue of the employee's skin color rather than race itself, played a key role in an employer's decision to keep the employee from advancing.[85]

Media[edit]
The media is responsible for influencing beliefs regarding ideas of beauty in the African American community. Mass media productions often perpetuate discrimination based on skin color.[citation needed] African Americans possessing lighter skin complexion and "European features", such as lighter eyes, and smaller noses and lips have more opportunities in the media industry. For example, film producers hire lighter-skinned African Americans more often, television producers choose lighter skinned cast members, and magazine editors choose African American models that resemble European features.[86] As a result, the media industry sends the message that African Americans with Eurocentric features are more likely to be accepted, diminishing the status of darker-skinned African Americans.[citation needed]

In regards to the magazine industry, African American women are rarely showcased in the most popular magazines.[citation needed] Therefore, African American girls have difficultly identifying with the models showcased in these magazines, because they do not represent the type of women that they come into contact with in their own communities. Recent studies have indicated that the number of racially biased advertisements in magazines have increased over the years. A content analysis conducted by Scott and Neptune (1997) shows that less than one percent of advertisements in major magazines featured African American models. When African Americans did appear in advertisements they were mainly portrayed as athletes, entertainers or unskilled laborers. In addition, seventy percent of the advertisements that features animal print included African American women. Animal print reinforces the stereotypes that African Americans are animalistic in nature, sexually active, less educated, have lower income, and extremely concerned with personal appearances.[87]

Concerning African American males in the media, darker skinned men are more likely to be portrayed as violent or more threatening, influencing the public perception of African American men. Since dark-skinned males are more likely to be linked to crime and misconduct, many people develop preconceived notions about the characteristics of black men.[88]

Politics[edit]
A 2011 study found that white state legislators of both political parties were less likely to respond to constituents with African-American names.[89] A 2013 study found that in response to e-mail correspondence from a putatively black alias, "nonblack legislators were markedly less likely to respond when their political incentives to do so were diminished, black legislators typically continued to respond even when doing so promised little political reward. Black legislators thus appear substantially more intrinsically motivated to advance blacks' interests."[90]

Some research suggests that white voters' voting behavior is motivated by racial threat. A 2016 study, for instance, found that white Chicago voters' turnout decreased when public housing was reconstructed and 25,000 African Americans displaced. This suggest that white voters' turnout decreased due to not living in proximity to African-Americans.[91]

Voter ID laws have brought on accusations of racial discrimination. In a 2014 review by the Government Accountability Office of the academic literature, three studies out of five found that voter ID laws reduced minority turnout whereas two studies found no significant impact.[92] Disparate impact may also be reflected in access to information about voter ID laws. A 2015 experimental study found that election officials queried about voter ID laws are more likely to respond to emails from a non-Latino white name (70.5% response rate) than a Latino name (64.8% response rate), though response accuracy was similar across groups.[93] Studies have also analyzed racial differences in ID requests rates. A 2012 study in the city of Boston found that black and Hispanic voters were more likely to be asked for ID during the 2008 election. According to exit polls, 23% of whites, 33% of blacks, and 38% of Hispanics were asked for ID, though this effect is partially attributed to black and Hispanics preferring non-peak voting hours when election officials inspected a greater portion of IDs. Precinct differences also confound the data as black and Hispanic voters tended to vote at black and Hispanic-majority precincts.[94] A 2010 study of the 2006 midterm election in New Mexico found that Hispanics were more likely to incur ID requests while early voters, women, and non-Hispanics were less likely to incur requests.[95] A 2009 study of the 2006 midterm election nationwide found that 47% of white voters reported being asked to show photo identification at the polls, compared with 54% of Hispanics and 55% of African Americans."[96] Very few were however denied the vote as a result of voter identification requests.[96] A 2015 study found that turnout among blacks in Georgia was generally higher since the state began enforcing its strict voter ID law.[97] A 2016 study by University of California, San Diego researchers found that voter ID laws "have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of Hispanics, Blacks, and mixed-race Americans in primaries and general elections."[98]

Research by University of Oxford economist Evan Soltas and Stanford political scientist David Broockman suggests that voters act upon racially-discriminatory tastes.[99]

OMFG really??!! Crime rates??!!

@Stivil Look my dad makes a half million a year I went to christian schools, expensive public schools up till college and I have a lot of wealthy friends. Rich people commit just as much crime as anyone else, they just almost never go to jail for it.

Emma you're totally right

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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28-06-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 03:03 PM)Emma Wrote:  I feel like I have stated several times what white privilege is and it's not the things you are denying exist and it also isn't really about crime rate.

I can't seem to understand what you think white privilege means- so can you please tell me what you think the term means?
I've read what you posted regarding your thoughts on what "white privilege" is.

I don't agree with your definition.
I think the term "white privilege" if going by your definition is very misleading and perhaps a better term for it ought to be used.

"privilege" means having special access to something.
I would term "affirmative action" to be "privilege".
If their is a quota system, an enforced recruiting policy or entrance policy whereby a certain group can gain access with a lower grade or less experience then that counts as "privilege". Thus in my old school, there was Maori privilege with regards to having a special award just for them, and female privilege with regards to having a special award for them. The white boys had no special privileges.

If blacks have some sort of discrimination going against them, this isn't white privilege, perhaps it is "black discrimination" instead. Let's call it that rather than mask it with this misuse of the term "white privilege"?
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28-06-2017, 03:46 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 02:20 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-06-2017 08:23 AM)Emma Wrote:  Consider this- a poor white man and a poor black man. Given that both have the same opportunities presented to them, a black person will have to fight the additional biases against them in every situation where the white man will not. Both have biases working against them, but a black person has the additional bias of their skin color working against them.
What are these biases, what is the possible causes and how can this be turned around?

If it is about biases then it certainly isn't "white priviledge" this is somehow pointing at the whites as the cause, suggesting we are giving each other secret handshakes and winks and favouring each other for jobs etc.
There is no secret white privilege society as far as I know.

If the problem is generalisations about blacks then it is to do with the blacks as a group and their reputations, it isn't "privileged whites" putting them in this situation.
It is human nature to generalise, to come to some kind of judgement on a stranger.
If blacks are causing the lion share of crimes then people will be weary of blacks.
The thing about being part of the "black group" is that it isn't something you can hide. An Atheist can hide their non belief, a black can't hide their skin colour.

But if the problem is that a high percentage of blacks commit crimes, then the solution is to try to prevent blacks from committing crimes rather than to gift blacks positions in schools that others need to compete for, or jobs that others need to compete for.
If blacks are committing the crimes then why is this happening? Is it because they are poor? Is it because of their upbringing? Is it because they have a grudge against society? It is definitely not because of white privilege.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Blacks" aren't causing the lion share of crimes, affirmative action is not intended to bring down the rate of black crime, and positions in school or jobs are not "gifted" to undeserving black people.

I had been wondering why you didn't address the multiple research studies that showed that people who got jobs on the basis of affirmative action performed just as well as non-affirmative action hires. Now I know: it's too contradictory of your self-pitying, bigoted world view.
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28-06-2017, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2017 04:11 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 03:46 PM)julep Wrote:  WTF is wrong with you?

"Blacks" aren't causing the lion share of crimes, affirmative action is not intended to bring down the rate of black crime, and positions in school or jobs are not "gifted" to undeserving black people.

I had been wondering why you didn't address the multiple research studies that showed that people who got jobs on the basis of affirmative action performed just as well as non-affirmative action hires. Now I know: it's too contradictory of your self-pitying, bigoted world view.
Really?

You are now resorting to calling me a bigot, because I don't agree with your views.
I didn't say that Blacks are the cause for the lion's share of crime. I put an "if" in front of that statement because I'm not sure what the discrimination is and what its causes are.

I don't agree with affirmative action. I find it discriminatory and a cause of resentment and racism. It is an attempt to solve a perceived racial problem by employing racist policies. It doesn't seek to address root causes, it seeks to create a false outcome, basically treating symptoms rather than causes.

I also don't agree with the use of the term "white privilege" because as some might use this term, it is highly misleading and points the finger away from where the actual cause might be.

With regards to your linked research studies. With regards to many situations it is generally easy to find contradictory studies.
Even if these studies are true, it doesn't really address the problem does it.
All it is saying is that high grades and high qualifications don't matter that much with regards to being effective in ones job. If this is true then maybe they ought to lower the standard for everyone and not just blacks? Or perhaps they ought to use other criteria rather than just looking at grades.

I have given an example (whether it is true or not, I haven't researched) but I have been told by some Chinese people as to their perception of Malay doctors. Potentially lower qualifications gives them lack of confidence in Malay doctors and this is contradictory to your presented studies.


EDIT: and honestly, if you are going to get upset for me bringing up the topic of crime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics...ican_males
Quote:Approximately 12–13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 35% of jail inmates, and 37% of prison inmates of the 2.2 million male inmates as of 2014 (U.S. Department of Justice, 2014).[2][3] Census data for 2000 of the number and race of all individuals incarcerated in the United States revealed a wide racial disproportion of the incarcerated population in each state: the proportion of blacks in prison populations exceeded the proportion among state residents in twenty states.

According to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), African Americans constitute nearly 1 million of the total 2.3 million incarcerated population, and have nearly six times the incarceration rate of whites

If we are talking about generalisations on blacks and discrimination against them, don't you think we ought to talk about the incrimination facts where blacks are more highly represented?
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28-06-2017, 04:14 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 04:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-06-2017 03:46 PM)julep Wrote:  WTF is wrong with you?

"Blacks" aren't causing the lion share of crimes, affirmative action is not intended to bring down the rate of black crime, and positions in school or jobs are not "gifted" to undeserving black people.

I had been wondering why you didn't address the multiple research studies that showed that people who got jobs on the basis of affirmative action performed just as well as non-affirmative action hires. Now I know: it's too contradictory of your self-pitying, bigoted world view.
Really?

You are now resorting to calling me a bigot, because I don't agree with your views.
I didn't say that Blacks are the cause for the lion's share of crime. I put an "if" in front of that statement because I'm not sure what the discrimination is and what its causes are.

I don't agree with affirmative action. I find it discriminatory and a cause of resentment and racism. It is an attempt to solve a perceived racial problem by employing racist policies. It doesn't seek to address root causes, it seeks to create a false outcome, basically treating symptoms rather than causes.

I also don't agree with the use of the term "white privilege" because as some might use this term, it is highly misleading and points the finger away from where the actual cause might be.

With regards to your linked research studies. With regards to many situations it is generally easy to find contradictory studies.
Even if these studies are true, it doesn't really address the problem does it.
All it is saying is that high grades and high qualifications don't matter that much with regards to being effective in ones job. If this is true then maybe they ought to lower the standard for everyone and not just blacks? Or perhaps they ought to use other criteria rather than just looking at grades.

I have given an example (whether it is true or not, I haven't researched) but I have been told by some Chinese people as to their perception of Malay doctors. Potentially lower qualifications gives them lack of confidence in Malay doctors and this is contradictory to your presented studies.

Well with regard to your crime rate question, the real answer is people commit crimes across all races and income brackets and genders at about the same rate. I don't have a study to back this up as no one has made such a study yet (they really should), however the reason you see more black people going to jail on average is because other's aren't getting as harsh sentences, or the cops let them go, or the cops don't feel it's something worth investigating. But if you are convicted of the crime of being black or Mexican, ect or obviously poor then they will go hunting for you. I have a sheriff who swings between not bothering with me too much cause i rarely go outside to harassing me about every little offense (If I dare spend too much time outside my home). Shit if he found out I'm not a Christian for sure he would find some reason to arrest me (the main reason he doesn't like me I think is because I don't go to church on Sundays, I mean he treats this redhead white kid better and that kid constantly gets drunk and starts fights, me I keep to myself and try not to cause trouble. and yet I'm constantly followed and questioned if I dare leave my house, it's been a lot worse lately, not sure why. I've started driving like an old person to avoid standing out too much).

Also again, blacks get shot without provocation by cops. Generally that doesn't' happen even to Mexicans in Texas or California so they do have it worse from the cops than anyone else, i'm pretty convinced of this.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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28-06-2017, 04:24 PM
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 04:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Well with regard to your crime rate question, the real answer is people commit crimes across all races and income brackets and genders at about the same rate. I don't have a study to back this up as no one has made such a study yet (they really should), however the reason you see more black people going to jail on average is because other's aren't getting as harsh sentences, or the cops let them go, or the cops don't feel it's something worth investigating.
This may or may not have some truth to it. Certainly there should be more studies done on this.

(28-06-2017 04:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  But if you are convicted of the crime of being black
This wording is a bit off.
"Convicted of being Black"?

(28-06-2017 04:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I have a sheriff who swings between not bothering with me too much cause i rarely go outside to harassing me about every little offense (If I dare spend too much time outside my home). Shit if he found out I'm not a Christian for sure he would find some reason to arrest me
I think perhaps USA, especially bible belt states have their special place and perhaps racism is rife and institutionalised there. I don't know, I've never been there, but I have heard stories.

But you did bring up the point of being given harder times under law enforcement for being atheist. I have seen an old study which showed that atheists are underrepresented in USA prisons.
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28-06-2017, 04:29 PM
Does White Privilege Exist?
White privilege is a load of BS. Asians prove this.
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28-06-2017, 04:36 PM (This post was last modified: 28-06-2017 04:43 PM by JesseB.)
RE: Does White Privilege Exist?
(28-06-2017 04:24 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-06-2017 04:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Well with regard to your crime rate question, the real answer is people commit crimes across all races and income brackets and genders at about the same rate. I don't have a study to back this up as no one has made such a study yet (they really should), however the reason you see more black people going to jail on average is because other's aren't getting as harsh sentences, or the cops let them go, or the cops don't feel it's something worth investigating.
This may or may not have some truth to it. Certainly there should be more studies done on this.

(28-06-2017 04:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  But if you are convicted of the crime of being black
This wording is a bit off.
"Convicted of being Black"?

(28-06-2017 04:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I have a sheriff who swings between not bothering with me too much cause i rarely go outside to harassing me about every little offense (If I dare spend too much time outside my home). Shit if he found out I'm not a Christian for sure he would find some reason to arrest me
I think perhaps USA, especially bible belt states have their special place and perhaps racism is rife and institutionalised there. I don't know, I've never been there, but I have heard stories.

But you did bring up the point of being given harder times under law enforcement for being atheist. I have seen an old study which showed that atheists are underrepresented in USA prisons.

I'm talking about the only sheriff on this mountain, his name is Scott. He also know's my name and where I live (well everyone know's my name and where I live up here) and he's deeply religious, that harassment isn't an indication nor is it intended to be an indication of any trends elsewhere. Add to that I'm not white, and I'm not liked by MOST of the community up here because I'm pretty much the ONLY person that doesn't go to church on Sundays.... yea there's a big red bullseye on my back up here. I've had Scott threaten to get warrants to arrest me for things that A) aren't even crimes and B) were things neighbors just made up about me to make me look bad. The people that know me know those rumors aren't true (Well ok I'm also not straight which is one of the reasons people don't like me but the fact that I'm Bi is just a rumor up here I neither confirm nor deny).

Convicted of being black is a bit of sarcasm with a bit of truth to it, like saying you got pulled over for a DWB (driving while black), it's a bit of dark humor meant to illustrate the problem.

And yea if you don't live in the US you might not realize what it's like to be in the US and deal with our legal system, or if you live in the US but have never been to the bible belt... same thing... But travel about an hour outside any major city and you're pretty much in the bible belt in the US. Again though the discrimination against poor people in the US is usually I think more impactful than racial discrimination these days, though if your not white and poor you can get a double whammy as has been mentioned above (NOT always though, after all you can find plenty of video's of cops shooting unarmed people just because they are black).

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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