Does a powerful computer search its maker?
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26-11-2016, 12:42 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(26-11-2016 03:50 AM)SYZ Wrote:  -----
From the first article, it's reported that Koko produced utterances (sentences?) of structurally unrelated signs such as mess red thirsty mouth thirsty, and please milk please me like apple bottle. I don't think that could be called creative or abstract.

I personally tend to agree with the skeptics; that the animals are being prompted by their carers, as they're the only people that can purportedly communicate successfully with them, and that the carers are overly interpreting and re-forming the animal's responses (even inadvertently) to questions put to them—and again only by their carers.

Do you have children? Wink
Childhood developmental skills chart quite similar progress with language.

"Association" is a part of learning and I do think continued association of "word signs" with ideas, stimulates abstract thought. Sure, there are limited degrees to which abstract ideas can be expressed, especially when associative learning is limited. But I don't think that just because learning is limited, it doesn't automatically mean achievement is impossible.

I'm also quite skeptical but, I don't think such research can be completely disputed as some kind of "wishful" interpretation by hopeful caretakers. I think a lot more research should be done - it's extremely fascinating. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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27-11-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(25-11-2016 09:59 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(25-11-2016 08:32 AM)KerimF Wrote:  The notion of a 'creator' is useless to any living thing that has only its instincts to follow. After all, its instincts were made to be enough in guiding it to better live its role for which it (the living thing) was made to exist.

The notion of "a creator" comes from the same place that Darth Vader, Bambi, and The Boogieman come from --- some person's imagination.......

Yes, the image of the creator, as you presented here, is indeed has been included/adopted, along history and in variant ways, in many fairy tales (so-called religious) made for adults. One of the important goals of these fairy tales were important to better control the men on bottom with minimum problems.

But the human brain has evolved with time. And it became real necessary to create new versions of such tales. They were called political and instead of miracles they were proven by so-called solid evidences. For example, we all witnessed the great evidences (though on videos/articles only, as usual) that prove the existence of a new independent powerful bogeyman. This great bogeyman has the power to threatening, in these days, all armies/forces/intelligences in the world. It is known as 'the 9/11 Terror of Al-Qaeda (and its various Islamist versions)'. Although this bogeyman exists (and all its servants have the same black flag anywhere on earth), it is not as it is described by the modern holy sources that are provided by the prophets who run the international news agencies and humanitarian organisations.

Anyway, I personally leave these great tales (religious) and solid evidences (political) for any person who cannot find the truths, by himself, that concern his own existence and the real world he lives in.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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27-11-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(25-11-2016 03:16 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Computers don't search their makers, they search data structures that make up a search space.

Yes, they do it but based on there various pre-programmed functions in order to provide the required different services for which they were made in the first place. And while they are playing their pre-programmed roles, they surely don't need to know anything about their makers Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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27-11-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
How many times have you been told on this forum that we dont give a shit about your worldwide conspiracy bullshit, unless you provide any data to support your silly bullshit?

100? 200? 1000?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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27-11-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(25-11-2016 08:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Off topic. .....Offtopic Every time I quickly look at KerimF's name I think it's short for Kermit the Frog.

Just sayin.


Ok, carry on.......

You are not the first one and, surely, you will not be the last one Tongue

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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27-11-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(25-11-2016 10:45 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(25-11-2016 08:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Off topic. .....Offtopic Every time I quickly look at KerimF's name I think it's short for Kermit the Frog.

Just sayin.


Ok, carry on.......


Agreed.

Don't you see, Dancefortwo?... You weren't the last one... This applies to our fellow KUSA as well Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-11-2016, 08:20 AM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(27-11-2016 12:34 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  How many times have you been told on this forum that we dont give a shit about your worldwide conspiracy bullshit, unless you provide any data to support your silly bullshit?

100? 200? 1000?

Sorry, it seems you don't get yet that I am not a professional expert in producing audio-visual evidences equivalent to the ones that you seem so proud of for being YOUR solid evidences of what, you believe, should be true and real.

In other words, you use indeed telling me "you are wrong" for a zillion times. But, we both know that you have not a single good evidence to prove me your repeated statement; I mean... to prove it to me, not to anyone else Tongue

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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28-11-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(28-11-2016 08:20 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 12:34 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  How many times have you been told on this forum that we dont give a shit about your worldwide conspiracy bullshit, unless you provide any data to support your silly bullshit?

100? 200? 1000?

Sorry, it seems you don't get yet that I am not a professional expert in producing audio-visual evidences equivalent to the ones that you seem so proud of for being YOUR solid evidences of what, you believe, should be true and real.

In other words, you use indeed telling me "you are wrong" for a zillion times. But, we both know that you have not a single good evidence to prove me your repeated statement; I mean... to prove it to me, not to anyone else Tongue

Did i say "you are wrong"?
Did i claim that you have to be an "audi visual whatever"?
Did i show you yet any of my evidence for anything i have claimed?
Did i tell you what you should believe to be real?
Did i make claims that need backup?

So, which part of
(27-11-2016 12:34 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  How many times have you been told on this forum that we dont give a shit about your worldwide conspiracy bullshit, unless you provide any data to support your silly bullshit?

100? 200? 1000?
should i explain?

Hint: the answer i am expecting involves numbers, it does not involve lies and baseless assertions.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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28-11-2016, 03:53 PM
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
(28-11-2016 11:32 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Hint: the answer i am expecting involves numbers, it does not involve lies and baseless assertions.

Did i say "you are wrong"?

Don't you see?! Even now you tell me I am a liar.
Please don't tell me you use calling someone who tells you right things a liar Tongue

Quote:Did i claim that you have to be an "audio visual whatever"?

Do you mean your evidences are not made by experts in making their videos about reality.

Quote:Did i show you yet any of my evidence for anything i have claimed?

Of course you didn't... and you will never be able doing it in my presence Tongue

Quote:Did i tell you what you should believe to be real?

Yes, you did. You tell me I should believe you, otherwise I would the most ignorant person around here Tongue

Quote:Did i make claims that need backup?

Of course you didn't. You just keep telling me I am... you know Wink without adding anything real important to know from your side...

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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29-11-2016, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 04:25 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Does a powerful computer search its maker?
You still have missed my original question, and instead focused on everything else i posted. Maybe intentionally so, maybe not. Maybe reading it another time will make you finally understand the admittedly complex issue i want you to adress.

I am sure many of our scientifically educated members and mathematicians (maybe you cant count to 100 yet?) are willing to help you interpreting my question.

So here it is:
Quote:How many times have you been told on this forum that we dont give a shit about your worldwide conspiracy bullshit, unless you provide any data to support your silly bullshit?

100? 200? 1000?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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