Does anyone else struggle with this?
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09-10-2013, 12:44 AM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(07-10-2013 09:23 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  In all that time, I haven't missed them. Haven't missed my younger brother, nor my dad, and certainly not my mother. Haven't thought of them, either. Yesterday, we went by their house because we had to pick up the kids, and there was no tearful reunion or "Wow, I've missed you guys" or anything like that because I honestly haven't missed them. And I suck at faking stuff like that. It just seems strange that I could shut off all emotions towards these people with whom I lived for so many years. but I have been doing that a lot lately.

I do not miss my family. The people who once were closest to my heart, mean very little to me. They were weak, and unable to hurt me with their words. I had already done the damage inside myself. My own self doubt, and suffering, were more pain than they could ever inflict.

I abandoned the Mormonism of my youth. When my head was clear of theology enough to truly see my family for who they were, I wished I had not looked. I was a witness to their rage, dishonesty, jealousy, disgust, and condescension. Love was not the center of our family, god was. All it took was an apostasy in the family, and the wolves threw off sheep's clothing, and began to devour.

Once I lay awake, wondering if I would ever know my family again. The tears I shed then seem useless now. I want nothing to do with them. I have lost all respect for them. The more they embrace something that is truly evil, I cannot see them as worthy of my love.

When I see them now, I feel a sense of longing. I love who they were to me when I still believed. I love the idea of them, not the human beings they are now.

Sometimes I wonder, what does this make me? What kind of person have I become? I have chosen to push my family away. They have not. It is I who reject them.

My wife always brings me down to earth when she tells me that our home is wonderfully free of their bigotry because of my stance. Our children will grow up secular, with freedom to pursue religion if they wish, without judgement. She always comforts me.

No doubt your story is different than mine, but this post made me realize some things that I was unwilling to realize before. Thank you. Self honesty is my healing balm.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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09-10-2013, 07:28 AM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(08-10-2013 04:08 PM)Skippy538 Wrote:  I have a sense there is something, or someone, else that is involved here. Something seems to be pulling you toward it. Maybe you've been thinking a lot about a new life alone? I say this without ANY judgment. It was those ideations that saved me.

But, be sure to be honest with yourself, that is the most important thing. If you've already made the decision, and are just trying to "not be a bad person," please don't waste your time. Life is too short to try to rationalize how not to be a bad person and get out of a relationship that stagnates you. Did I mention that I wasted nearly two years of my life when I should have been doing other things? I finally came up with "I want to have kids and she doesn't so....." 7 years later, no kids and no plans for kids. I was lying to myself but I couldn't just say "I'm not happy in this relationship" and leave it at that. Don't waste your life wondering what if. My 2 cents (or less).

I take no offense whatsoever, believe me. And yes, while there isn't another real person out there that's pulling me toward them (I haven't any kind of affair going on or anything like that), I have been spending quite a bit of time thinking about a life without him. A life on my own with freedoms I don't have now and that potential to meet someone who might be more suited to me.

It's when I'm thinking heavily on this nebulous "someone" that I am at my most depressed around my husband. I'll sit there and just wish he was the person I thought he was in the beginning and that's when things get really bad for me.

It was weird, but a while back (few weeks ago, maybe?) I was thinking about everything - the general ups and downs of the relationship lately, with me being happy one day and downright miserable the next - and one of my very favorite characters (I write novels, so there are lots of "characters" rattling around in my head) goes, "Don't worry, sweetheart. These are just the last few bumps before the ride comes to an end." So, if you can set aside the weirdness-factor, it was... I don't know. Melancholy. And it felt really truthful at that time, too.

Today, I'm fairly happy, fairly at peace, but who knows what tomorrow will bring, and whether the end of the track is just around the bend.

And Kim, thanks for your advice as well. I'm doing my best to stay rested up and take care of myself, though this is an awful time of year to be contemplating such things. This is the busy/stressful time of year at my job, so my brain tends to be mush by the end of the workday, but still I'm trying to keep a clear head.

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09-10-2013, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 08:36 AM by Escape Artist.)
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
Oh, Skippy. If I may (and if you don't mind answering) what was it like for you during the time that you were struggling with your relationship with this woman? Did you have good days and bad? Days where you thought maybe things would be okay and others where you were just certain it was doomed? What was the final tipping point? Or was it just a matter of realizing that all the waffling around was futile and that if you weren't sure then you weren't sure enough to stay and so then moved on?

I'm still struggling with this idea that if things are bad enough to leave (in any relationship) then one must be miserable the entire time, or must pretty well hate the other person and I find, as I said, that I don't hate him. I just, don't always want to be with him and wish for someone else. I struggle with the notion that contenting oneself with the situation they're already in is somehow more pious than striking out in search of bliss, but I think that's religious programming still messing with my head. Saying that I have to suck it up and make do.

ETA: There is something else that I find strange or telling or what-have-you. It's that, I've asked myself what would I do if the best case scenario came true and I were to realize my dream of getting published and happened to make lots of money at it? Or any windfall scenario, really. And my answer is always that I would leave him immediately. That leads me to believe that it's only because I've never had to support myself, never lived on my own off my own income, that keeps me in fear and with him.

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09-10-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
Hug




But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-10-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(09-10-2013 10:33 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Hug




The video link wasn't working, so I'm taking out the extra http and will try it again. Thanks for the hugs.

ETA: omg it's Chris! He always cheers me up. Heart Extra thanks now!!!

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09-10-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(09-10-2013 12:05 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  ETA: omg it's Chris! He always cheers me up. Heart Extra thanks now!!!

I thought this song was particularly relevant. Angel

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-10-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(09-10-2013 12:13 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 12:05 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  ETA: omg it's Chris! He always cheers me up. Heart Extra thanks now!!!

I thought this song was particularly relevant. Angel

It is, isn't it? That whole album is amazing, though. But yeah, I see what you mean. Me sitting around wishing he'd be something that I don't think he is or is ever going to be is pretty fruitless.

In the other thread I had going (the one I kind of hi-jacked from Peanut, lol) I mentioned how I'd really told my husband in great specifics some of the things I'd like to do or try. And he has yet to really say anything about it either way.

I just keep thinking that if he wanted to be adventurous that way, he'd have already found a way to do it or mention it or something. Or that at least he'd have reacted to my suggestions with a "I'm glad you brought that up 'cause I've been wanting to try that for a long time" or something along those lines. Instead he just said something about how if I mention something I'd like to do that he doesn't know about, he'd have to research it and see how to make it good for me. And that was it. Not a "Yes, baby, we'll try that" or "Yes, baby, I'd love to watch you pleasure yourself" (the latter of which requires no research of any kind on his part!) or anything.

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09-10-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
You need to do what makes you happy. Relax, think about it, keep your head up. Hug
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09-10-2013, 10:04 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 10:13 PM by Skippy538.)
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(09-10-2013 08:31 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  Oh, Skippy. If I may (and if you don't mind answering) what was it like for you during the time that you were struggling with your relationship with this woman? Did you have good days and bad?

Unfortunately for me, it was one event. In year 4 of the relationship, I had asked her to handle throwing a birthday party for me. I just wanted all of my friends at our house drinking beers and hanging out on the boat. Understand - this was the response to 'what do you want for your birthday.' No gifts, I just wanted all my friends in one place with booze. She agreed to do it, but then didn't. The next year, I asked again, and when I realized that she didn't care enough about me to actually give me what I wanted, not what she wanted to give me, I picked up the phone and started calling all my friends. To make up for it, she bought me a $400 ski (used - a nice ski). But I didn't WANT a ski or anything else material - I wanted all my friends in one place, and I didn't want to have to throw my own birthday party. It's really an easy thing to do, if you CARE about someone.

So I threw a great party and the whole time I was preparing for it, I was saying to myself - yep we aren't for each other. The next weekend we had a sit down and I told her I was wanted out, and was planning to move out. There was a brief period where she tried to fix things, but I had made up my mind that in two months after the holidays I was buying a house and moving out. That's precisely what I did, and for three months wondered what the hell I was thinking, waiting so long.

Quote: SNIP

I'm still struggling with this idea that if things are bad enough to leave

Listen to the words you are using - let's rephrase "how unhappy is unhappy enough to leave?" Really? Ferdinand is right - you really need to focus on what is going to make you happy.

Quote: SNIP And my answer is always that I would leave him immediately. SNIP

Always? That's a mighty strong word.

I think the most important thing to remember is that you don't have to ask anyone's permission or have anyone's approval to pursue what you think will make you most happy. I would eliminate all thoughts out of pity, remorse, "long-suffering" or any other glorified christian value that is making you lean back in to the marriage out of guilt instead of your true self-desire.

At the same time, I did give the person I was with the opportunity - twice - to give me what I wanted. Personally, I would take one of the easy ones you have in your head, and try to do it with your husband. He may surprise you, and he may not. But you have entered into a relationship with him, so there is something there. The question is - can he grow with you? As the father of your children, I would give him the chance, but I wouldn't wait on introducing the change you want to see in your life, I would start to test his resolve to make it work and give you what you want.

For you, I would spend some time letting this decision rest, and just be HAPPY in the knowledge that the power is in your hands, and that you are going to commit to do what is best for you. Commit to that, and the rest will come. At present, you are worried that you are going to stay for the wrong reasons. Put this idea to bed. This peace of mind will help you stay calm through the ups and downs. You have the power, and you are going to start proactively making the changes you want and either he comes along or doesn't. At that point, he has made your decision for you. My 1 1/2 cents.

Cheers.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

Martin Luther was the "father" of two movements - The Reformation and Nazism.
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10-10-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: Does anyone else struggle with this?
(09-10-2013 10:04 PM)Skippy538 Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 08:31 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  Oh, Skippy. If I may (and if you don't mind answering) what was it like for you during the time that you were struggling with your relationship with this woman? Did you have good days and bad?

Unfortunately for me, it was one event. In year 4 of the relationship, I had asked her to handle throwing a birthday party for me. I just wanted all of my friends at our house drinking beers and hanging out on the boat. Understand - this was the response to 'what do you want for your birthday.' No gifts, I just wanted all my friends in one place with booze. She agreed to do it, but then didn't. The next year, I asked again, and when I realized that she didn't care enough about me to actually give me what I wanted, not what she wanted to give me, I picked up the phone and started calling all my friends. To make up for it, she bought me a $400 ski (used - a nice ski). But I didn't WANT a ski or anything else material - I wanted all my friends in one place, and I didn't want to have to throw my own birthday party. It's really an easy thing to do, if you CARE about someone.

So I threw a great party and the whole time I was preparing for it, I was saying to myself - yep we aren't for each other. The next weekend we had a sit down and I told her I was wanted out, and was planning to move out. There was a brief period where she tried to fix things, but I had made up my mind that in two months after the holidays I was buying a house and moving out. That's precisely what I did, and for three months wondered what the hell I was thinking, waiting so long.

Quote: SNIP

I'm still struggling with this idea that if things are bad enough to leave

Listen to the words you are using - let's rephrase "how unhappy is unhappy enough to leave?" Really? Ferdinand is right - you really need to focus on what is going to make you happy.

Quote: SNIP And my answer is always that I would leave him immediately. SNIP

Always? That's a mighty strong word.

I think the most important thing to remember is that you don't have to ask anyone's permission or have anyone's approval to pursue what you think will make you most happy. I would eliminate all thoughts out of pity, remorse, "long-suffering" or any other glorified christian value that is making you lean back in to the marriage out of guilt instead of your true self-desire.

At the same time, I did give the person I was with the opportunity - twice - to give me what I wanted. Personally, I would take one of the easy ones you have in your head, and try to do it with your husband. He may surprise you, and he may not. But you have entered into a relationship with him, so there is something there. The question is - can he grow with you? As the father of your children, I would give him the chance, but I wouldn't wait on introducing the change you want to see in your life, I would start to test his resolve to make it work and give you what you want.

For you, I would spend some time letting this decision rest, and just be HAPPY in the knowledge that the power is in your hands, and that you are going to commit to do what is best for you. Commit to that, and the rest will come. At present, you are worried that you are going to stay for the wrong reasons. Put this idea to bed. This peace of mind will help you stay calm through the ups and downs. You have the power, and you are going to start proactively making the changes you want and either he comes along or doesn't. At that point, he has made your decision for you. My 1 1/2 cents.

Cheers.

Well, Skippy, I was going to post some more today, but then I read what you wrote here and don't feel the need to write anything else at present.

I like your idea of my moving forward and pursuing the things that make me happy and then if he gets on board, I'll know that maybe things will work out after all, and if he doesn't, then the decision will be made by default.

And yeah, you're right that there's still a lot of Christian programming going on in my head that I haven't quite rid myself of yet. Doing something for no other reason except that it will make you happy is frowned upon indeed by most Christian circles.

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