Does atheism oppose the world religions?
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02-01-2018, 02:48 AM
Does atheism oppose the world religions?
Is it necessary to debate between atheism and a religion?

The bold man has no hair. We can say, what he has non-existent hair. The atheist comes to any theist, looks at his god. This god has following properties, according to theist: existent, loving, judging, omnipresent (or any properties the theist thinks of his god). Then, the procedure of atheism removes one single property from this list: existence. Remains: loving, judging, omnipresent, etc.
So, the atheists encompass all gods of theism-s, but removing the property of existence. So, one can finally conclude what atheism is: it is having the Nonexistent Loving God, so an atheist feels free today to love and tomorrow to reject love's existence. Am I right?

No need for militant atheism -- Existent God and Nonexistent God are two different Gods:


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02-01-2018, 03:27 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 03:34 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
Existence is not a property. Something exists, or it does not. By this logic, any crazy nonsense you can think of is real, but just doesn't have the property of existence. Do you see how nonsensical that is? What does it mean to say something doesn't have the "property" of existence, but is then anything other than imaginary? It exists, but doesn't exist?

As to the titular question, "atheism" doesn't do anything. Any particular atheist is free to oppose any or all religions, or none at all.

"Rejecting love's existence" doesn't make sense either. Love is an abstract concept, it's a description of an emotion: an emergent propert of brains. The brains literally exist. Love is observed and described. This has nothing to with atheism. You're mixing up lots of different ideas here.

These are all equivocations to try and somehow equate atheism with theism. If you're trying to say, "can't we all just get along", then I agree. But I won't stand by and allow harm to be done, so I will oppose those parts of religion that cause it. If you want to call this "militant atheism", then fine. I call it being a good person.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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02-01-2018, 05:14 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Is it necessary to debate between atheism and a religion?

The bold man has no hair. We can say, what he has non-existent hair. The atheist comes to any theist, looks at his god. This god has following properties, according to theist: existent, loving, judging, omnipresent (or any properties the theist thinks of his god). Then, the procedure of atheism removes one single property from this list: existence. Remains: loving, judging, omnipresent, etc.
So, the atheists encompass all gods of theism-s, but removing the property of existence. So, one can finally conclude what atheism is: it is having the Nonexistent Loving God, so an atheist feels free today to love and tomorrow to reject love's existence. Am I right?

No need for militant atheism -- Existent God and Nonexistent God are two different Gods:



"Am I right?"
Nope. Lots of adjectives in the salad, but not much else, I'm afraid.

"This god has following properties, according to theist: existent, loving, judging, omnipresent..."

Your god sounds like my kids when they were little. Exercising their judgement. Eternally underfoot. A snuggle and a story at bedtime.

You forgot "omniscient" on your laundry list, but you might as well leave it off. Why? Go look in the mirror at the Top 20 FUBARs evolution stuck humanity with. Ain't nothing intelligent designed that. A deaf, dumb and blind committee 5 mins from deadline, perhaps- a committee who never, ever met each other - but nothing intelligent. We're really badly put together. So much so, we make giraffes look sensible.

You forgot "omnipotent", too, but since we've established your god is...well...mindless, you might have left it off on purpose. All powerful and completely mindless are a recipe for disaster. I'm thinking Kim Jong Un with everybody's nuclear arsenal scale of disaster.

" loving, judging". Mindless things aren't renowned for tender emotions or exercising good judgement. Consider the sea sponge.

" ...(or any properties the theist thinks of his god)" Wait...what?! Are you saying the theist gets to put his own god together from snips and snails and puppy dog tails? You are, you know. You might like to rethink that. You might like to give special consideration to all those people who have been murdered throughout history and five minutes ago because theists gave their god any properties they damn well felt like.

And what's with the Dawkin's video? Do you usually call people deluded you're trying to make friends with?
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02-01-2018, 06:18 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 03:27 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Existence is not a property. Something exists, or it does not. By this logic, any crazy nonsense you can think of is real, but just doesn't have the property of existence. Do you see how nonsensical that is? What does it mean to say something doesn't have the "property" of existence, but is then anything other than imaginary? It exists, but doesn't exist?
The theists say, that their God is existent, in the sense: "It exists both in our Real Mind and in outside Reality, in Cosmos."

(02-01-2018 05:14 AM)Sushisnake Wrote:  And what's with the Dawkin's video? Do you usually call people deluded you're trying to make friends with?
You and I do not like the video, because it is the negative example. It is example of militant atheism. It is published to tell the readers not to become militant like Dr. Dawkins.
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02-01-2018, 06:25 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
At work.

Hello Thermodynamics! Thumbsup

Theists (And people in general) can say lots of things.

So.... how might a deity exist both out in reality AS WELL as inside every one's heads "At the same time".

Not trying to say that is your position, but it's a weird one.

Also, where inside people's heads might the diety reside?

Otherwise it's all just pretty, poetic language......

Consider
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02-01-2018, 06:33 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Then, the procedure of atheism removes one single property from this list: existence. Remains: loving, judging, omnipresent, etc.... Am I right?

Laugh out load

No.

Atheism is not a procedure and you can't remove existence from something that doesn't exist and when something doesn't exist it doesn't have properties.

It appears to be very difficult for some theists to accept that atheists don't see any need to have a central focus of worship. It also appears impossible for many to grasp that atheism is just not accepting the claims of existence for a god and not a different form of religion.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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02-01-2018, 06:38 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 06:18 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  It is published to tell the readers not to become militant like Dr. Dawkins.

Now THAT is funny. Dawkins is not militant. He may be blunt in pointing out that theistic beliefs are irrational, and often an impediment to progress, but taking offense at his words does not equate to his being militant.

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." -- Stephen Fry

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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02-01-2018, 06:44 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 07:29 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Is it necessary to debate between atheism and a religion?

The bold man has no hair. We can say, what he has non-existent hair. The atheist comes to any theist, looks at his god. This god has following properties, according to theist: existent, loving, judging, omnipresent (or any properties the theist thinks of his god). Then, the procedure of atheism removes one single property from this list: existence. Remains: loving, judging, omnipresent, etc.
So, the atheists encompass all gods of theism-s, but removing the property of existence. So, one can finally conclude what atheism is: it is having the Nonexistent Loving God, so an atheist feels free today to love and tomorrow to reject love's existence. Am I right?

No need for militant atheism -- Existent God and Nonexistent God are two different Gods:

LMAO
Oh really ? "Loving" ... nope. What we observe is the SAME as if there were no god. No help for victims of any disease, (including a million children who will die this year of starvation and thirst), no help for any victim of natural disasters ... no nothing. "Loving" is the biggest JOKE of all time. Give me a break. What remains is a "nothing". If the gods are "omnipresent" than why the fuck are they doing nothing, and just watching all the evil happen. Seriously. Get a grip. If there is an "existent god" it is evil and the laziest non-active being there is.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

"Existence" only is a problem. If a god "exists" then it doesn't participate in "non-existence" ... and Reality has always been larger than it is.
Oops. Where did Reality come from ?
It can't have created the very Reality if it *must* participate in a subset of, .... something which is larger than itself.

There is no difference between a god that is totally absent from human affairs and what is happening here, ...... and one that does not exist.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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02-01-2018, 06:44 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 06:18 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 03:27 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Existence is not a property. Something exists, or it does not. By this logic, any crazy nonsense you can think of is real, but just doesn't have the property of existence. Do you see how nonsensical that is? What does it mean to say something doesn't have the "property" of existence, but is then anything other than imaginary? It exists, but doesn't exist?
The theists say, that their God is existent, in the sense: "It exists both in our Real Mind and in outside Reality, in Cosmos."

Sure, they say that. It doesn't make it true. It exists in their mind only, as far as evidence is concerned.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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02-01-2018, 07:00 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
What a terrifying being you've imagined: "loving" in a way that's familiar to battered spouses everywhere, judging, omnipresent. Always there, always watching in anticipation of a slip-up. I'm sorry you've decided to believe in such a being.

Your god's qualities were assigned by its human creators. The qualities reflect the preoccupations of those humans--their troubled relationships with their fathers and their wishes for control over unpredictable events and other people.

If you'd make the minimal effort to imagine a creator god, even one based on a human template, these are not the qualities which it would have. A creator god would be judging itself for its numerous and ongoing fuckups. Ideally, the one responsible for our bit of the universe would have abandoned creation after piddling around in it for a few years and gone, at around age 30 or so, into accounting or insurance.
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