Does atheism oppose the world religions?
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02-01-2018, 07:38 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Is it necessary to debate between atheism and a religion?

The bold man has no hair. We can say, what he has non-existent hair. The atheist comes to any theist, looks at his god. This god has following properties, according to theist: existent, loving, judging, omnipresent (or any properties the theist thinks of his god). Then, the procedure of atheism removes one single property from this list: existence. Remains: loving, judging, omnipresent, etc.
So, the atheists encompass all gods of theism-s, but removing the property of existence. So, one can finally conclude what atheism is: it is having the Nonexistent Loving God, so an atheist feels free today to love and tomorrow to reject love's existence. Am I right?

No need for militant atheism -- Existent God and Nonexistent God are two different Gods:



How can we look at the theist's god? We can't perceive it. It's not supposed to be perceptible. I can't infer it's existence from objective premises, since gods are supposed to transcend or live outside the objective universe? What's left but the imagination? There is no god in reality, only in the imagination and unfortunately for theists the imagination is not reality. So when the theist asks us to consider his god, we have no alternative but to imagine such a thing and then to pretend for a minute that it is real in order to consider its "qualities".

This post sounds to me like a person who is on the ropes and out of strength and who covers his face and says "don't hit me anymore". Debating theism is not being militant. What's happened is that the bloom is off religion now and it is not enjoying the get out of logic free card it used to enjoy. It's become more and more acceptable to criticize it and you don't like this. You long for the good old days.

Religion deserves to be criticized TheBorg. It is irrational and false and harmful and it should be criticized and relegated to a fringe belief like flat earthers or past lives as Egyptian queens.

You want me to stop criticizing religion? Show me a reliable way to distinguish what you call God from something that is merely imaginary.

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02-01-2018, 07:44 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Is it necessary to debate between atheism and a religion?

Debate? There is no debate with religion just as there is no playing chess with pigeon.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-01-2018, 07:59 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
Atheism is simply a response to a claim.

The claim is that a god or gods exist. This claim is made by the various world religions.

Atheism simply asks for proof of that claim.

Religions and theists appear to have problems providing such proof.

Understood?

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
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02-01-2018, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 09:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
There is no "outside the cosmos". It's a meaningless string of words.
Spacetime is a property of this universe only, until proven otherwise.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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02-01-2018, 09:02 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Is it necessary to debate between atheism and a religion?

It's not necessary at all.

All an Atheist is, is a person saying "I don't believe in A god" and that's fine. The same way a theist would say "I do believe in a god". In my opinion, if it stayed on that level, and that level alone, the world would be a much better place.

The reason we DO debate between Atheism and religion, is because of things like Theists pushing creationism in schools. It's an idea that is terrible, and only pushes the world back into the dark ages. When god creates everything, and you're actively told this at school, what in fudges name are you going to do with yourself in later years?

And it's not about just Creationism, it's about ALL religions saying "This IS the way it is, get a grip of yourself and love my god dammit". Science isn't exclusive to being an Atheist, it's about learning and understanding, to better the human race. That won't happen when the kids are told "The sun? God did it. Space? god did it", it's just backwards.

Then, you have the fact that these are actual issues, to not include the fact that Theism is the cause of a LOT of issues around the world. Terrorist acts and a lot of ancient wars are all because "my god is better than your god" or "you don't understand my god like I do". Never happened to Atheist's.

And even then, the mere fact that any time, when a theist "debates" with an Atheist, it's 99% a theist person acting all smug because they had "their good book with all the answers" despite the fact they've probably never actually read it, and only know the "main" bits from whatever service they attend. It's hard to talk with some theists.

A decent person would never go out of their way to rubbish somebody's belief system, or lack there of, just to get "one up on them. That goes for Theists and Atheists alike. I would never storm into a Church or Synagogue and start spouting off about how it's all wrong, yet religious preachers are allowed to stand in the street and literally shout an passes by about how they can burn in hell? Sounds fucking backwards to me.

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02-01-2018, 09:20 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
Atheism doesn't require anything. It is not a system of rules or values, it is simply how theists group all people who deny one very simple (and also false) claim about the existence of deities. There doesn't really even need to be a term to describe atheists, we're simply not theists. It's kind of like if Bigfoot believers have some word they use to describe everyone else - it's only really necessary to them. I don't have any need to acknowledge the terms that may be used to describe my lack of belief in fantastical things. I CERTAINLY have no requirement to debate people and explain WHY I don't accept the existence of Bigfoot, Leprechauns, Unicorns, Dragons, etc.
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02-01-2018, 05:08 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 05:18 PM by Sushisnake.)
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 06:18 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 05:14 AM)Sushisnake Wrote:  And what's with the Dawkin's video? Do you usually call people deluded you're trying to make friends with?
You and I do not like the video, because it is the negative example. It is example of militant atheism. It is published to tell the readers not to become militant like Dr. Dawkins.

Nope. I just think saying " You're delusional. Let's be friends." a very strange way to try and win friends and influence people.

I notice you ignored the points I made on omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence and the outcome of theists making god up as they go along. I feel slighted. I put some thought into my reply, and all you give me is a weak kneed justification for your ad hominem on Richard Dawkins.
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03-01-2018, 02:51 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
(02-01-2018 06:33 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 02:48 AM)thermodynamics Wrote:  Then, the procedure of atheism removes one single property from this list: existence. Remains: loving, judging, omnipresent, etc.... Am I right?

Laugh out load

No.

Atheism is not a procedure and you can't remove existence from something that doesn't exist and when something doesn't exist it doesn't have properties.

It appears to be very difficult for some theists to accept that atheists don't see any need to have a central focus of worship. It also appears impossible for many to grasp that atheism is just not accepting the claims of existence for a god and not a different form of religion.
You are talking about the agency of Verity, which decides over the validity of a religions. In Atheism, there is no such thing. Then, being atheists, one can hear that the theists are saying about their God, and use it as definition of this God. Then, the atheism removes one single feature of this God. And that imprint becomes left in atheist mind: Nonexisting Loving God. Atheist has thought about the God: "God does not exist", which is not yet scientifically validated. Why then, to oppose the world religions?
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03-01-2018, 03:14 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
Religions do a lot more than just say God exists.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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03-01-2018, 03:25 AM
RE: Does atheism oppose the world religions?
I don't know what exactly you mean by "oppose" here, and what it is you find objectionable.

You don't like atheists speaking their mind? There's very few atheists I've ever heard of who condone doing anything by force, who want religious practice outlawed, or want to harass theists. And if people do that, I'll be against them as much as you are.

Most want to debate, to (verbally) challenge what they see as bad ideas in the public arena, and to speak out against the harm that is done. Are you really not aware of the harm that religion is responsible for? Should we sit quietly and watch? We can be against that harm, and debate ideas, without trying to take away peoples' liberties to be religious at the same time.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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