Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
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11-09-2016, 01:23 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(11-09-2016 12:57 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(11-09-2016 06:34 AM)theBorg Wrote:  This is absurd: if it is really the 4 km, then it is really constant. How the 4 km can change??? If it is changed, and now it is 5 km, then it is not the 4 km anymore. Correct?

It is not absurd, it is the entire point of the experiment. Space and time are not constant, they are mutable. This is the very foundation of Relativity. Gravitational waves cause otherwise unchanging space-time to expand and contract as they pass. This means that the 4 km really does change, albeit by an incredibly tiny amount. This change in the length of the arms is what LIGO measures.

Actually, just like Michaelson and Morley, they had the beam traverse the arm of the interferometer many times in order to have a bigger distance (arm) because they needed extremely high sensitivity. LIGO used 300 (!) transitions of the beam through the arm before the beam hit the mirror. So the "virtual arm" was 1200km!
The reason they needed this is because gravity is so weak that even gravitaional waves produced by black holes colliding and converting mass in a magnitude of solar masses were able to "stretch" space by only 1/10^-20 !!!!! Gasp

This some really amazing $hit!

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11-09-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
It is the physical swinging of the mirrors influenced by the Earth's distortion, due to the passing gragitational wave, that cause a variation in laser beam path length, thus causing a phase change compared to the reference beam.

http://phys.org/news/2016-02-ligo.html

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11-09-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(11-09-2016 01:23 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(11-09-2016 12:57 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  It is not absurd, it is the entire point of the experiment. Space and time are not constant, they are mutable. This is the very foundation of Relativity. Gravitational waves cause otherwise unchanging space-time to expand and contract as they pass. This means that the 4 km really does change, albeit by an incredibly tiny amount. This change in the length of the arms is what LIGO measures.

Actually, just like Michaelson and Morley, they had the beam traverse the arm of the interferometer many times in order to have a bigger distance (arm) because they needed extremely high sensitivity. LIGO used 300 (!) transitions of the beam through the arm before the beam hit the mirror. So the "virtual arm" was 1200km!
The reason they needed this is because gravity is so weak that even gravitaional waves produced by black holes colliding and converting mass in a magnitude of solar masses were able to "stretch" space by only 1/10^-20 !!!!! Gasp

This some really amazing $hit!

I know, I was just trying to keep it simple. He seems to be having some trouble grasping the notion that distortions of space-time make the 4 km long physical arm not 4 km long. I didn't want to confound matters by putting a 1200 km long beam path inside the 4 km long arm.

[Image: keep-calm-its-bigger-on-the-inside.png]

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11-09-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
Completely OT but seeing the police box above gave me a very rare flash back to childhood in the 1950s.

We lived in South East London, in a 100+ year old terrace workers house with an outside toilet and a bath that hung on a nail in the ''scullery'' wall.

Proper baths could be had at th public bath house down the road. Outside that establishment was the big blue police box, a la Dr Who - but smaller inside than out. It had a hatch with a telephone for the public to make emergency calls direct to the nearest police station and a little room where the copper could rest, make up his notes and phone his report in.

As in America the police had whistles but only truncheons.Since the boxes were made of wood the local kids used to nail the doors up!

Ah, nostalgia, TF things have improved - or have they just changed?

Ahem, back to LIGO. I also did not bother with the idea of folding the beam to increase its length.

I can understand Borgie not knowing basic science but cannot really understand why such as he cannot accept that science and the supernatural are such, fundamentally, different things. That there is no evidence that the latter exists except as a figment in some peoples' minds.

Ho, hum.

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11-09-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
And if there was any evidence we'd have a big peer-reviewed paper from the LIGO consortium titled: Holy Fuck! We Found God!

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11-09-2016, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2016 07:13 PM by SYZ.)
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(11-09-2016 06:34 AM)theBorg Wrote:  This is absurd: if it is really the 4 km, then it is really constant. How the 4 km can change??? If it is changed, and now it is 5 km, then it is not the 4 km anymore. Correct?

It doesn't matter what units of measure you use. It's the percentage increase and/or decrease of each beam length that matters. You could call each beam length A which, after the wave(s) "hit" becomes A ± x

The whole point of the exercise is to prove that what you're denying actually does happen in the real world. So of course you are right—by default!—that it is no longer 4km.

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11-09-2016, 10:22 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(11-09-2016 10:18 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(11-09-2016 09:05 AM)theBorg Wrote:  The length of a ruler, the length of a car, the brick, the length of a human p*n*s, etc. is not easy to change. The length between two dust particles in empty space is easy to change. Correct?

All those lengths get changed easily by gravity, all the time and everywhere, because gravity stretches space itself (and not things within space).
Not the things in space? So when the ruler shows the length of a p*n*s: 15 cm, then this number will not be soon 30 cm, despite the gravity wave is coming?
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11-09-2016, 10:47 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
Facepalm





At work.
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11-09-2016, 11:09 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(11-09-2016 10:22 PM)theBorg Wrote:  Not the things in space? So when the ruler shows the length of a p*n*s: 15 cm.....
Oh hunny.... you gotta stop measuring other peoples cocks. Drinking Beverage

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12-09-2016, 02:32 AM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(11-09-2016 10:22 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(11-09-2016 10:18 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  All those lengths get changed easily by gravity, all the time and everywhere, because gravity stretches space itself (and not things within space).
Not the things in space? So when the ruler shows the length of a p*n*s: 15 cm, then this number will not be soon 30 cm, despite the gravity wave is coming?

Oh, come on, now you are trolling. Stop wasting both our times. Dont you have better things to do with your life? Thats pathetic. For real!

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