Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
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04-09-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 03:47 AM)theBorg Wrote:  I see, you are not the seeker of information. Let me help you. 1) click on my link. 2) stroll down the page. 3) find the three links (which start with "www.researchgate")
they will direct you to 3 papers. 4) Please read them.

These are three papers disputing the methodology they used to detect gravitational waves. You are still a troll.

I don't think you can even understand what you read.

You also referenced a known prank in your original post, falling for a known prank and then trying to make some kind of obtuse and idiotic point from said prank destroys your credibility and makes you look like a gullible fool.
Thumbsup

But, on the evidence offered here, when did Borgie ever have any credibility to destroy?

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04-09-2016, 05:54 AM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 05:48 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  These are three papers disputing the methodology they used to detect gravitational waves. You are still a troll.

I don't think you can even understand what you read.

You also referenced a known prank in your original post, falling for a known prank and then trying to make some kind of obtuse and idiotic point from said prank destroys your credibility and makes you look like a gullible fool.
Thumbsup

But, on the evidence offered here, when did Borgie ever have any credibility to destroy?

Haha! Touche'

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-09-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  You are still a troll... a gullible fool.
Not a specially nice welcome to newbies. You better warn them in the description of the forum: "if you like the True God, we will kill your good mood".

Let me reformulate. There is "strong equivalence principle", see Wikipedia. Therefore, the observation in small laboratory is the same throughout all space and time. Therefore, by looking at the color of the laser radiation one can not detect the incoming gravitational wave. But it was detected this way. Therefore, the wonder of the freewill has happened: detector works due to the spiritual powers. Let us hope, what they came from the Jesus Christ.
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04-09-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 01:06 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  You are still a troll... a gullible fool.
Not a specially nice welcome to newbies. You better warn them in the description of the forum: "if you like the True God, we will kill your good mood".

What part of "The Thinking Atheist" suggests to you that religious fools who can't be arsed to make their own arguments will be welcomed with open arms?

Quote:Let me reformulate. There is "strong equivalence principle", see Wikipedia. Therefore, the observation in small laboratory is the same throughout all space and time. Therefore, by looking at the color of the laser radiation one can not detect the incoming gravitational wave. But it was detected this way. Therefore, the wonder of the freewill has happened: detector works due to the spiritual powers. Let us hope, what they came from the Jesus Christ.

Translation: Borg has no idea how this experiment works so it must be supernatural.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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04-09-2016, 02:14 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 01:13 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 01:06 PM)theBorg Wrote:  Not a specially nice welcome to newbies. You better warn them in the description of the forum: "if you like the True God, we will kill your good mood".

What part of "The Thinking Atheist" suggests to you that religious fools who can't be arsed to make their own arguments will be welcomed with open arms?

Quote:Let me reformulate. There is "strong equivalence principle", see Wikipedia. Therefore, the observation in small laboratory is the same throughout all space and time. Therefore, by looking at the color of the laser radiation one can not detect the incoming gravitational wave. But it was detected this way. Therefore, the wonder of the freewill has happened: detector works due to the spiritual powers. Let us hope, what they came from the Jesus Christ.

Translation: Borg has no idea how this experiment works so it must be supernatural.
Apart from, that as a "Junior member" you are ranked above the "newbie" level. Thus you are fair game to have your, so-called, arguments attacked in what appears to be this forum's time honoured style. A combination of logical refutations and insult when you deserve it!

Don't take it personally, I am sure all others of your ilk are treated the same way.

Anyway:
If the Sun's gravity can bend the light from stars (a la Einstein and Eddington) then I am sure that gravity can also affect a laser, or any other light source for that matter. It is just that lasers can be tuned to a specific colour.

The "Doppler" type effect on the light from stars approaching or receding from an observer on Earth, the red and blue shifts, has already been mentioned. Now, if we were to hit the light from a laser, on the axis of the beam, a similar effect might be observed. I used the word "might" deliberately.

Doppler is normally described as something like the change in note/frequency as a car/train blowing its horn passes the observer. The same goes for an observer passing a stationary, horn blowing vehicle; irrelevant here but a new insight for me in my quest to understand relativity!

Anyway (again) if that laser beam is "pushed" by any external influence in its direction of travel its frequency will shift upwards (I think), the reverse applies also. Thus, if the frequency/colour of a laser shifts something must be influencing it.

Did the colour change? By how much?

Am I talking through my arse?

Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

Signed,
Owittu
(One who Is trying to understand.) (But who is not quite sober.) (Nice drop of Merlot this.)

Smile

:hic:

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04-09-2016, 10:58 PM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 02:14 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  1) and insult when you deserve it!
2) I am sure that gravity can also affect a laser...
The "Doppler" type effect
1) Hurting an innocent you do hurt yourself: what goes around, comes around.
2) So, you do debunk the strong equivalence principle. Allow me then to follow main stream science, rather than your fallacies.
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05-09-2016, 03:23 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2016 10:58 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 10:58 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 02:14 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  1) and insult when you deserve it!
2) I am sure that gravity can also affect a laser...
The "Doppler" type effect
1) Hurting an innocent you do hurt yourself: what goes around, comes around.
2) So, you do debunk the strong equivalence principle. Allow me then to follow main stream science, rather than your fallacies.
1) It is a foolish "innocent" who enters the domain of those who think in an entirely different way, especially if a theist enters an atheist domain, not to expect to be attacked vigourously. It is a foolish person who, having been so attacked, persists in pushing his ideas at thise who deny them vigourously.

You act more like an "evangelist" than a debater and it is possibly that aspect of your presentation that causes you to attract most of the grief. Any allusion to the supernatural or conspiracy theories will lose you all respect, leave you open to ridicule in this domain.

If you are an innocent then you are a foolish innocent. Check the definition of "fool", it is not an insult in this context.

2)
Quote:The outcome of any local non-gravitational experiment is independent of where and when in the universe it is performed.

http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open...lesu1.html

IIRC you said something about events happening everywhere at the same time? Was the above theory your basis for that?

I admit to being no scientist, merely a lover of science who does his best to understand.(Think I will ask if I can change my name to Owstu!) But I do not read the above quotation in that way. However, since it is couched in the fairly formal language of science I will hesitate to offer my reiteration of it until I understand it more fully.

But it appears to say any experiment not involving gravity will return the same results wherever you perform it in the Universe. This implies that gravity is a force that depends on your locality. That seems quite evident, Earth's gravity is stronger on the Earth's surface than it is even a few feet above that surface. It is stronger over an iron ore deposit than one of aluminium ore of an equivalent volume.

If your experiment is placed in a location where local gravity can be closely monitored and accurately measured then variation in the local gravity can be cancelled out of the equation.

Thus any "gravitational effects" that are detected must have an origin remote to your location.

Gravity was thought to be a steady state, non-radiating, field, in my understanding so far. But any suficiently large variation in the gravity in any specific location, say in a place where two black holes coalesce, will affect every other location in the entire Universe to a degree dependant on its distance from that event.

This cannot happen instantaneously, if Einstein is right, so it will be observed, by a stationary observer in a gravitational environment of known gravitational characteristics, as a moving "wave-front" independent of that known environment.

That "wave-front" may be if insuffucient force to affect gross mass, but it may be sufficient to affect a beam of light of a precisely determined frequency. That effect may possibly alter the apparent frequency of that light.

I do not know, maybe it will not do so, proof is evidently still under discussion. Without a full understanding of the science and maths involved, and having done the required calculations oneself, one would be very foolish to stand on either side of the argument, best to let the big boys slug it out first and watch from the side-lines!

And there is no room for the supernatural in this IMHO.

Written immediately after waking from a lousy, disturbed night and with a hang-over. Appologies for any unpotted typos, not sure which directions my eyes are pointing as yet. Appologies also for any slips in my logic, I know what I meant!

Appologies for any potted typos as well...

Edited later, more typos corrected, additional text underlined and in bold, changed text in bold, no text deleted. Fairly happy with my thoughts.

Added: if one has several laser beams pointing in directions tangential to a circle, and with at least three "circles", orthoganol to each other, the difference in effect on the individual beams would give an indication as to the direction of origin of that wave front. Other forms of observation in that direction may furnish further evidence of the nature of the event.

Also, any movement of the lasers themselves, even extremely minute ones, will cause the colour of the beam to change to a stationary detector, a la Doppler. If "control" lasers are compared to the "exposed" ones then that movement will also be detected. Three decades ago the company I worked for were developing a "laser gyroscope" that worked on that principle to dete. Old stuff now.


OOPS, got stuck thinking about the wrong project! That's what age, booze and a stuffed head can do for you! Non-relevant stuff crossed out.

Never mind, I still enjoyed the exercise and the matter of equivalence was also interesting to look into.

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05-09-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(04-09-2016 01:06 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  You are still a troll... a gullible fool.
Not a specially nice welcome to newbies. You better warn them in the description of the forum: "if you like the True God, we will kill your good mood".

Let me reformulate. There is "strong equivalence principle", see Wikipedia. Therefore, the observation in small laboratory is the same throughout all space and time. Therefore, by looking at the color of the laser radiation one can not detect the incoming gravitational wave. But it was detected this way. Therefore, the wonder of the freewill has happened: detector works due to the spiritual powers. Let us hope, what they came from the Jesus Christ.

Oooh! a piece of candy! Oooh! a piece if candy!





Stuidy this video carefully, because that is what you are doing. You are forcing a supernatural interpretation on everything. A piece of candy!

Here's the bad news, there is no trap at the end to stop your confirmation bias, so you can waste the rest of your life pointing to things and saying "gawd!" or "a piece of candy!"

You have already demonstrated that you fall for known pranks and make wild-ass assertions based off of that.

Now why should anything you say be taken seriously until you derail your confirmation bias and demonstrate that you have corrected your thinking errors?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-09-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
(05-09-2016 03:23 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  And there is no room for the supernatural in this IMHO.
You wish! With violation of equivalence principle was violated also the General Relativity. Such strong destruction of natural laws was surely SUPER.

Let me add to the general public: The technical description of LIGO shows, what the mirrors do not hung freely, isn't it? You have the information from the Wikipedia, haven't you? The Wikipedia is way too primitive source of information.
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05-09-2016, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2016 10:05 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Does detector LIGO work on freewill only?
Facepalm

Quote:The technical description of LIGO shows, what the mirrors do not hung freely, isn't it?

Could you translate that into English please? Which mirrors? The splitter or those on the test masses?

The test masses must be free to move in order to modulate the laser beams, but we are talking incredibly small movements so I doubt they will be hung from the ceiling but very carefully controlled as to their limit of movement.



Now, I am going to have to make an admission, I conflated this with other attempts to detect gravity waves. I blame it on my dotage, the early hour (for me), the references to the colour of the lasers and the vino! But, in the spirit of science one has to hold up one's hand when one commits a total FUBAR. Blush

Science is honest! Not like some other mindsets.

But there still ain't no deus in this machina! Or anywhere else for that matter.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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