Does free will exist?
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08-05-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Does free will exist?
I'm a pragmatist myself; I don't think the answer to this question matters because it makes no tangible difference. Whether we have free will or an illusion of free will so convincing that we believe it to be real - it's all the same to me.

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08-05-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: Does free will exist?
(08-05-2016 03:14 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 02:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Indeed. Neuroscience of free will.

So is it "no" in the long term as well, or just in the short term?

Free will vs. free won't.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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08-05-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: Does free will exist?
(08-05-2016 03:41 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm a pragmatist myself; I don't think the answer to this question matters because it makes no tangible difference. Whether we have free will or an illusion of free will so convincing that we believe it to be real - it's all the same to me.

Agreed. It seems we have no choice but to live our lives with the assumption that we have free will.

But I am interested in hearing from those who think we have free will in long term, but not short term. Just wondering how they arrived at that conclusion.
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08-05-2016, 11:38 PM
RE: Does free will exist?
(08-05-2016 03:41 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm a pragmatist myself; I don't think the answer to this question matters because it makes no tangible difference. Whether we have free will or an illusion of free will so convincing that we believe it to be real - it's all the same to me.

Unfortunately, free-will doesn't exist inside a vacuum. The whole criminal justice system is built around the construct of free-will and culpability, and crumbles in the face of something like determinism. The more we understand how the human mind works, and how much things entirely beyond our conscious control affect it and our decision making process, determining culpability gets harder and harder as you further widen the circle of influence and causation with our ever increasing knowledge on the subject.

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09-05-2016, 12:11 AM
RE: Does free will exist?
Free will is a strange concept. As if we had power over life and death. My mother did not choose MS. Horrible disease. I did not choose cancer.

That guy in India did not choose to get killed by a meteorite.

But what a way to go! Big Grin

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09-05-2016, 12:18 AM
RE: Does free will exist?
(09-05-2016 12:11 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Free will is a strange concept. As if we had power over life and death. My mother did not choose MS. Horrible disease. I did not choose cancer.

That guy in India did not choose to get killed by a meteorite.

But what a way to go! Big Grin

Death by falling space rock.

Man, I hope my obituary is that fucking awesome.

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09-05-2016, 12:24 AM
RE: Does free will exist?
(08-05-2016 11:38 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 03:41 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm a pragmatist myself; I don't think the answer to this question matters because it makes no tangible difference. Whether we have free will or an illusion of free will so convincing that we believe it to be real - it's all the same to me.

Unfortunately, free-will doesn't exist inside a vacuum. The whole criminal justice system is built around the construct of free-will and culpability, and crumbles in the face of something like determinism. The more we understand how the human mind works, and how much things entirely beyond our conscious control affect it and our decision making process, determining culpability gets harder and harder as you further widen the circle of influence and causation with our ever increasing knowledge on the subject.

That's why retributive justice to me is anathema. Not that I have a choice about that opinion. But sequestering troublemakers from society is a rational thing to do I think, even if they themselves aren't culpable in a free-choice-to-be-dickheads sense. Mind you the whole criminal justice system was set up by people who didn't have a choice Tongue Don't blame me for my megalomaniac tendencies. I didn't have toys when I was a kid.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-05-2016, 12:31 AM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2016 12:35 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Does free will exist?
(09-05-2016 12:24 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's why retributive justice to me is anathema. Not that I have a choice about that opinion. But sequestering troublemakers from society is a rational thing to do I think, even if they themselves aren't culpable in a free-choice-to-be-dickheads sense. Mind you the whole criminal justice system was set up by people who didn't have a choice Tongue Don't blame me for my megalomaniac tendencies. I didn't have toys when I was a kid.

Agreed. I understand sequestering a potential problem, doing so in the name of safety for everyone else. But retribution? No, revenge has no place in justice.

Same for the death penalty. Mistakes are made, people can change; but death is permanent. There are no reparations for the dead.

Actually, I had a big argument with my girlfriend over that. She didn't like how I boxed her into a logical corner, where she either had to drop her support of the death penalty or had to accept that here personal catharsis at enacting retribution was more important to her than someone's potential innocence in light of a flawed system and the people who operate it.

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09-05-2016, 01:12 AM
RE: Does free will exist?
(09-05-2016 12:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Actually, I had a big argument with my girlfriend over that. She didn't like how I boxed her into a logical corner, where she either had to drop her support of the death penalty or had to accept that here personal catharsis at enacting retribution was more important to her than someone's potential innocence in light of a flawed system and the people who operate it.

So, no sex that night. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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09-05-2016, 01:19 AM
RE: Does free will exist?
(09-05-2016 01:12 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 12:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Actually, I had a big argument with my girlfriend over that. She didn't like how I boxed her into a logical corner, where she either had to drop her support of the death penalty or had to accept that here personal catharsis at enacting retribution was more important to her than someone's potential innocence in light of a flawed system and the people who operate it.

So, no sex that night. Wink

It was an argument worth having. People's lives are more important than our personal catharsis.

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