Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
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25-11-2010, 01:39 PM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
We can question everything and should. Neither question addresses a deity, but the agreed model of the deity. Why is God formulated to be good: because God is the positive creative force. To be good is to be just: there's nothing wrong with justified killing, or it would be unjustified killing.
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25-11-2010, 05:17 PM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
(24-11-2010 05:56 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  Hey Godless

God is reasoned to be good, we don't just label it that way. Extremism is blinkered reasoning... it's religion narrowed down to fit your purpose. That's cherry picking.

Murder in the name of God is anti God, because of the way we have defined God. To justify killing takes more knowledge than I think we can possess, though we kill sentient life forms for food which is supposedly just in our minds. Making a moral decision on a contemporaries right to live based upon their past performance... I don't think we're equipped to judge.

By that logic you could ignore the teachings of just about any Deity and proclaim that you have no right or ability to judge against your deity.

It's along the same lines as "who are you to question god". All humans have a right to question their system of beleifs.

God is only reasoned to be good by excluding a very significant portion of the bible. God is a total and complete (forgive the language) asshole.
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25-11-2010, 06:16 PM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Godless

God is reasoned to be good by people formulating the idea of God. It's central to my belief to always question God. I cannot tho accuse God of doing something against his/ her nature, no more than I could logically accuse a rock of being a feeling. God cannot be logically reasoned to be bad by including the whole of the bible when the bible is predicated on the notion that God is good.
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26-11-2010, 01:06 AM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Formulating means creating. In other words, god is reasoned to be good by people who are creating the idea of god. You just said that they are making it up.
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26-11-2010, 03:42 AM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2010 04:28 AM by fr0d0.)
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Not quite No J, but good effort! Wink

People worked out what God was in a logically coherent construct. "If God is this then he can't be this and must be this" sort of thing. We did a pretty good job as it's quite bomb proof.

I can work out how the engine in my car outside works - that doesn't make me the creator.
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26-11-2010, 05:07 AM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
"God cannot be logically reasoned to be bad by including the whole of the bible when the bible is predicated on the notion that God is good. "

prove it. I can easily prove to you that god is a sadistical manic that engages in incest, infanticide, murder, human sacrifice, genocide and many other things.

There IS good advice in the bible given after Yahweh by Jesus but you don't need Jesus to be real to learn from a book.

So if the bible says god is good then it should have some proof for it by a track record.

edit: BTW the god is good contrast is easily disproved by multiple people on this forum. It's by no means bomb proof if you are honest about things. The only thing that seems to be immune to reason are people's beliefs. People have shot you down multiple times Fr0d0 by conclusive evidence.
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26-11-2010, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2010 11:08 AM by fr0d0.)
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Prove it for yourself Godless - google anything you think is proof of God being bad and come back to me if you can't find overwhelming evidence that the opposite is actually what is written.

You can't prove the book that is predicated on a good God that God is not good, unless you deliberately misinterpret the book. That much is abundantly clear. What you attribute to the book is obviously mistaken, if you think it says otherwise.

People might argue that black is white, but that doesn't make it so.
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26-11-2010, 11:07 AM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Quote:You can't prove the book that is predicated on a good God that God is not good, unless you deliberately misinterpret the book. That much is abundantly clear. What you attribute to the book is obviously mistaken, if you think it says otherwise.

I had to read this like 3 times to understand what you were trying to say. And, where does it say that the book is predicated on a "good God"? More to the point, given the amount of violence, murder and mayhem in the bible either by god or at his behest, how are you defining "good"? Did "good" have some different meaning then it does today 5,000 years ago? What about the word "justified"? Can you think of any way that one group of people would be justified in slaughtering a whole other group of people in the modern age? And, if not, then why was it ok in biblical times?

We've had the discussions about circular arguments with you a few times now. And, an argument that basically states: "the bible says that god is good so therefore anything he does is good because it says so in the bible" is not just circular, it's completely ridiculous.

Quote:People might argue that black is white, but that doesn't make it so.

The irony.....

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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26-11-2010, 02:33 PM
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Yeah I looked at re-wording it but it didn't help. Apologies that wasn't so easily understood.

The original authors of the bible list 'good' as one of the qualities of God. Then they wrote biblical accounts of him. The Rabbinical tradition is quite strict in adopting new ideas, the system is to thoroughly test that what a new rabbi teaches isn't inconsistent with the faith. Now you are saying that what you read and understand is the polar opposite to what they say it is. Someone's wrong here, and I've been on enough wild goose chases from people who claim to be able to disprove the fact, when if you look at the evidence it actually supports the notion that God is good, as you'd expect it would have to.

Please go test the theory yourself, and tell me if you find any different to what I've found.

The bible isn't the source of our knowledge, human rationalisation is. The bible is just a collection of sources supporting a construct. That construct, not from the bible remember, says that God is good. You and I adopt the common Christian definition as a given definition, it's what we call 'God'. To say that the bible disproves this is ridiculous beyond words, and defies logic.

Just one piece of successful evidence would make your case here. Should be the easiest thing you've ever done given the large amount of material you claim is so full of holes. Better check it out thoroughly tho' - I don't intend justifying every single verse. I'll grant you one attempt. Up for the challenge?
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26-11-2010, 03:13 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2010 03:17 PM by UnderTheMicroscope.)
RE: Does it matter if an Atheist doesn't fully understand evolution?
Frodo

I've become a theist, I recently discovered online a group who uncovered the book of "Y" that gives the commands of "X".
Many have tried to disprove the claims of "Y" but none have been successful, even the scientific community is boggled by it.
"X" gives accurate predicitons about modern society hidden in poetry and even gives us the same definitions of the words "good" and "justified"

As with my new belief I and my fellow "X"ist's are launching a campaign to cleanse the local area of all other religions, our enemies shall die by mauls that we are handcrafting as I type this.
All the men, women and young men will be killed, pregnant women will be skewered as to stop any potential enemies in the future from being born, their houses and all their belongings shall be burned to ash, and we shall take their virgin daughters for ourselves ;}

Since I've started praying to "X" I can hear and feel him/her/it, and he/she/it has reassured me that what I and my new brothers are doing is just, for those of other beliefs are wicked, sinful, and deserve to be slaughtered in the millions, for our deity is all good, as it is written in "Y"


chapter 62 of the book of "Y"
"Auron and his men spent days journying across the land to meet the enemy head on, but when they arrived some of Auron's followers became fearful that they would not win due to their exhaustion, hunger and lack of armor, so they left. As they did "X" said "Ye who has flead shall be punished in the same vain as thy enemy."
Auron and the remainder of his army slew and butchered the enemy as they would pigs, the traitors were rounded up and forced to eat the flesh of the enemy, they were taken back to the city where they were imprisoned and slowly died of a shaking illness put upon them by "X""
-Modern translation based on multiple versions of the text-


Clearly Auron and his followers were justified, because "X" commanded the death of all the profligates of the surrounding area, he did this because of the negative impact the profligates had on the land. and when Auron's own soldiers ran they became dissolute and thus had to be cleansed too.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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