Does life really exist?
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28-04-2017, 09:20 AM
RE: Does life really exist?
(28-04-2017 08:46 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  ...
Where are you getting this woo from?

YES we do exist.

I really warn laypeople even atheists, not to confuse what science uses for words.

As far as the theory of relativity and QM it is an "illusion" but not in the laypersons context.

When QM uses the word "illusion" they are not claiming we are not real, but from our point of view we cant remove ourselves outside our own dimension so most humans falsely see time as a one way arrow. But in our slice of space/time we most certainly DO exist.

It is really no different than accepting that while you cannot see a Japanese guy walking down a street in Japan, when you have no communication device, you still accept Japan exists.

Atoms exist, atoms build up to molecules which build up to DNA which leads to evolution.

Yes we are alive. I think you are over thinking this needlessly.

And you call yourself a poet?

Dodgy

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28-04-2017, 09:22 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2017 09:28 AM by kim.)
RE: Does life really exist?
Quote:What IS alive? What IS living? Can we really be sure that we are really anything more than just the same as that rock over there, that tree, that STAR from whence we came?

We are not anything more than that rock over there, that tree, that star ... we are the same.

It's about processes and energy. When those same elements are enacted upon ....




I do love a catchy tune. Shy

When Heart Feynman has the last word ... I feel all funny inside. Blush

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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28-04-2017, 09:35 AM
RE: Does life really exist?
(28-04-2017 09:13 AM)Dom Wrote:  We are also host to a variety of other life. For that life, we each are the universe.

What if what we see as the universe is just part of the intestine of something much bigger and we are part of the fauna and flora inhabiting it?

Perhaps this being is going to take some humanicidal antibiotic soon, we must be a cancer growing in the intestines. And we are replicating out of synch with the rest of the fauna and flora.
I smell a science fiction movie here.

However, I would like to point out that *any* organism, given the chance to colonise its environment as successfully (in a manner of speaking) as we have, would absolutely and totally go for it, destroying its own chances for survival too.

What I meant is, no, we are not worse than other animals, and would argue we are slightly better (in this one respect) because at least some of us do realise we are hurting the rest of the ecosystem and are trying to do something about it.

(Just a pet peeve of mine Rolleyes )

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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28-04-2017, 09:39 AM
RE: Does life really exist?
(28-04-2017 09:20 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(28-04-2017 08:46 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  ...
Where are you getting this woo from?

YES we do exist.

I really warn laypeople even atheists, not to confuse what science uses for words.

As far as the theory of relativity and QM it is an "illusion" but not in the laypersons context.

When QM uses the word "illusion" they are not claiming we are not real, but from our point of view we cant remove ourselves outside our own dimension so most humans falsely see time as a one way arrow. But in our slice of space/time we most certainly DO exist.

It is really no different than accepting that while you cannot see a Japanese guy walking down a street in Japan, when you have no communication device, you still accept Japan exists.

Atoms exist, atoms build up to molecules which build up to DNA which leads to evolution.

Yes we are alive. I think you are over thinking this needlessly.

And you call yourself a poet?

Dodgy

I'm sorry, must be some law I don't know about that demands I talk like Mr Rogers 100% of my waking life?

Nope sorry, if it's bullshit, I call it bullshit.

Just like the following should rightfully be called bullshit if you heard someone claim it.

"The New England Patriots beat the Chicago Cubs in the Stanley Cup".

If others think it is not bullshit, they are more than welcome to try to provide evidence.

It still remains that when humans have competing claims about the nature of reality the only universal tool we have is scientific method.

Using laypersons terms is not scientific. Everyone certainly is entitled to their own opinions, but nobody is entitled to their own set of facts.

The way science uses language is quite different than the way most laypeople think of the same words.

"Theory" to the fundy to them stupidly means " a mere guess".

"Theory" as credible scientists use is the outcome of repeated testing and falsification over long periods with independent peer review. It isn't pulling shit out of your ass like theists want it to mean.

The theory of evolution is FACT. So the title of the thread is nonsense.

I hope you don't think I am here to sugar coat everything because I am not. Facts are facts.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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28-04-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: Does life really exist?
(28-04-2017 09:39 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  ...
Just like the following should rightfully be called bullshit if you heard someone claim it.

"The New England Patriots beat the Chicago Cubs in the Stanley Cup".
...

Possibly a poor example.

I don't know why that's bullshit.

Without google, I can get as far as presuming that it relates to sport Rainbow Vomit which, like life, is a construct.

Big Grin

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28-04-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Does life really exist?
Yea - Cubbies play the One True sport!

Those other guys just run around and crash into each other - they're stupid - fuck 'em. Drinking Beverage




you wanted poetry, right?

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28-04-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: Does life really exist?
(27-04-2017 11:34 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  So, how can we really be sure if we are anything more than a different combination of non life stuff?

At bottom, life is a group of molecules, undergoing chemical reactions, and the group as a whole satisfies specific criteria such as reproduction, etc.

Asking if we are 'more' than a different combination of non-life implies that there would be something it would mean to be more than any other set of chemical reactions. If the processes which life undergo satisfies that meaning, then yes, we are something more. Or it could satisfy an additional set of constraints, such as a human life form. At bottom we're just chemical reactions, just like is going on with the rock, but some of the specific properties of the whole, like thinking, seem pretty special. Even less complex organisms like bacteria and viruses seem to meet some rather exceptional criteria. If meeting those criteria in some sense makes them 'more' than the rock which doesn't satisfy those criteria, then yes, life is 'more' than that.
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29-04-2017, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2017 07:03 PM by Vera.)
RE: Does life really exist?
(28-04-2017 07:17 AM)Vera Wrote:  I also love this one. Yep, complex things like the human brain, can evolve from very basic rules, indeed.





And yeah, if everything in the universe stayed the same, the primordial soup would still be bubbling merrily along, waiting for god to dig in with a spoon or something. Things change, the UNIVERSE changes and gives rise to ever more complex and different iterations of itself.

oh, and speaking of The Game of Life, how cool is that: The ocellated lizard is a computer game come to life

[Image: PT.5.7369figure2.gif]

"Timon lepidus, known familiarly as the ocellated lizard, wears the signs of aging on its scaly back. As the lizard matures, the spots that adorn its youthful skin break up and rearrange into a labyrinthine design that marks adulthood. Michel Milinkovitch of the University of Geneva and his colleagues don’t know why the lizard transforms that way—perhaps to camouflage itself, perhaps to signal potential mates—but they now know how.

By monitoring three lizards over several years, the researchers deduced that the patterns on the animals’ backs were updating according to a well-defined algorithm: Over a period of a month or so, a given scale will change color—from green to black or black to green—with a probability p that depends on the colors of the scales around it. For, say, a green scale surrounded by green neighbors, p is around 50%. For a green scale with two or fewer green neighbors, p drops effectively to zero. (The animated graphic is a computerized representation of one lizard’s skin changing over time.) The researchers confirmed the algorithm by modeling the reaction–diffusion equations that govern the evolving distribution of the lizard’s various color-generating cells.

In essence, the reptile is the embodiment of a cellular automaton, a type of discretized model made popular by John Conway’s Game of Life and used to simulate the spread of wildfires, the firing of neurons, and other phenomena. Although some cellular automata evolve indefinitely, the rules governing the ocellated lizard eventually steer it to a static pattern. Around the time the lizard turns four, its pixelated look becomes permanent."

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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