Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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18-01-2016, 03:04 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 02:28 PM)Banjo Wrote:  This guy still has yet to hit his hand with a hammer. This must mean he thinks he is more than thoughts. The pain cannot be "thought" away.

What a BS artist.
Your logic is:
Premise: The pain reached my brain without going through my thought process
Conclusion: Therefore pain & the hammer is real regardless of my thought process

Scientifically speaking:
There is no way the pain can reach your brain without going through your thought process.
The premise is false therefore the conclusion is false.
Invalid argument

http://michaelbalchan.com/braininfrastru...vid=4s4TeL
Anatomy of a Thought
When you have a thought, an electrical signal passes back and forth between the various neurons responsible for that thought. Because the brain is always trying to become more efficient, every time two cells communicate with one another the brain makes it easier for them to do so in the future by building up the connection between them. Technically, it does this by building a myelin sheath2 around the axon, which facilitates the transmission of the electrical signal.
The more you have a thought, the more the sheath gets built up, and the easier it is for electrical signals to pass between cells. The easier it is for electrical signals to pass, the easier it becomes to have the same thought in the future. As the father of neuropsychology Dr. Donald O. Hebb famously said, “neurons that fire together wire together.”
The process can be thought of as similar to the way that construction crews might add another lane to a well traveled street or highway to make it easier for cars to travel. Every time you have a thought it’s like giving a signal to the construction crews that more thought-traffic is coming, so they prepare by building more infrastructure.
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18-01-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:04 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 02:28 PM)Banjo Wrote:  This guy still has yet to hit his hand with a hammer. This must mean he thinks he is more than thoughts. The pain cannot be "thought" away.

What a BS artist.
Your logic is:
Premise: The pain reached my brain without going through my thought process
Conclusion: Therefore pain & the hammer is real regardless of my thought process

Scientifically speaking:
There is no way the pain can reach your brain without going through your thought process.
The premise is false therefore the conclusion is false.
Invalid argument


Then try it. Or are you scared?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-01-2016, 03:07 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 02:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 02:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only by your definition of 'fact'.
https://www.google.com/search?q=google&i...fact+means
fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts
a thing that is indisputably the case.

It's the dictionary meaning.
Google also.
It's unedited.
When disseminating information always ensure that the recipient carries the same understanding as you do.

If I want to tell you that:
The fruit is red.
but in your language the word fruit is pronounced seed then I have to say:
This seed is red.
or ask you to learn my language

In this case my language is English as defined by the English dictionary.
the concept I am trying to portray is:
"an indisputable piece of information"
the word I am using to convey that meaning is
"fact"

Do you wish to speak about a "fact" as described above?

If not then we can always start a new topic after concluding this one.
The translation of the topic of discussion lies solely with the person making the claim.

You cannot change the topic simply because you want it to mean something else.
So which is it?
Do you accept the dictionary meaning of the word fact?
or
Would you like to start a new topic which uses a different meaning of the word?
Not much of a linguist are you? If you learned the word for fruit is seed what is the word for red? Sod?
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18-01-2016, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2016 03:17 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:05 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 03:04 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Your logic is:
Premise: The pain reached my brain without going through my thought process
Conclusion: Therefore pain & the hammer is real regardless of my thought process

Scientifically speaking:
There is no way the pain can reach your brain without going through your thought process.
The premise is false therefore the conclusion is false.
Invalid argument


Then try it. Or are you scared?
What is the point in testing something wherin the results do not prove the point you are trying to make.
The result of the experiment does not prove that pain nor the hammer exists outside of the process of thinking

http://michaelbalchan.com/braininfrastru...vid=4s4TeL
Anatomy of a Thought
When you have a thought, an electrical signal passes back and forth between the various neurons responsible for that thought. Because the brain is always trying to become more efficient, every time two cells communicate with one another the brain makes it easier for them to do so in the future by building up the connection between them. Technically, it does this by building a myelin sheath2 around the axon, which facilitates the transmission of the electrical signal.
The more you have a thought, the more the sheath gets built up, and the easier it is for electrical signals to pass between cells. The easier it is for electrical signals to pass, the easier it becomes to have the same thought in the future. As the father of neuropsychology Dr. Donald O. Hebb famously said, “neurons that fire together wire together.”
The process can be thought of as similar to the way that construction crews might add another lane to a well traveled street or highway to make it easier for cars to travel. Every time you have a thought it’s like giving a signal to the construction crews that more thought-traffic is coming, so they prepare by building more infrastructure.

What is the point of the experiment in the first place?
You seem to think I making the claim that reality does not exist outside of the "process of thinking".
The claim I am making is that we cannot know for absolute certain if reality exists outside the "process of thinking" because the "process of thinking" is the only way we can test anyhting within our present reality.
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18-01-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:09 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 03:05 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Then try it. Or are you scared?
What is the point in testing something wherin the results do not prove the point you are trying to make.
The result of the experiment does not prove that pain nor the hammer exists outside of the process of thinking

http://michaelbalchan.com/braininfrastru...vid=4s4TeL
Anatomy of a Thought
When you have a thought, an electrical signal passes back and forth between the various neurons responsible for that thought. Because the brain is always trying to become more efficient, every time two cells communicate with one another the brain makes it easier for them to do so in the future by building up the connection between them. Technically, it does this by building a myelin sheath2 around the axon, which facilitates the transmission of the electrical signal.
The more you have a thought, the more the sheath gets built up, and the easier it is for electrical signals to pass between cells. The easier it is for electrical signals to pass, the easier it becomes to have the same thought in the future. As the father of neuropsychology Dr. Donald O. Hebb famously said, “neurons that fire together wire together.”
The process can be thought of as similar to the way that construction crews might add another lane to a well traveled street or highway to make it easier for cars to travel. Every time you have a thought it’s like giving a signal to the construction crews that more thought-traffic is coming, so they prepare by building more infrastructure.

You drinking?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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18-01-2016, 03:14 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
Ha ha, so you are scared! You must be more than thoughts then eh?

Also, your point seems to have changed. Earlier it seemed like you were a solipsist.

May I ask, are you a qualified surgeon, doctor, registrar?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-01-2016, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2016 03:27 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:14 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Ha ha, so you are scared! You must be more than thoughts then eh?

Also, your point seems to have changed. Earlier it seemed like you were a solipsist.

May I ask, are you a qualified surgeon, doctor, registrar?
I am not a doctor. I do have a background in medicine.
My point never changed. I am not, nor ever was a Solipsist.
I never made the claim that my thoughts are all that exist.
You can search these entire forums you will never see me claim anything remotely close to that. It's an illogical world view. I will be posting an article soon about why Solipsism is illogical & dishonest.

The possibility exists that I & all of reality may be more than just the product of thoughts.
I am simply stating that we can never properly test it unless we can remove "the process of thinking" from the test.
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18-01-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 02:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 02:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only by your definition of 'fact'.
https://www.google.com/search?q=google&i...fact+means
fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts
a thing that is indisputably the case.

It's the dictionary meaning.
Google also.
It's unedited.
When disseminating information always ensure that the recipient carries the same understanding as you do.

If I want to tell you that:
The fruit is red.
but in your language the word fruit is pronounced seed then I have to say:
This seed is red.
or ask you to learn my language

In this case my language is English as defined by the English dictionary.
the concept I am trying to portray is:
"an indisputable piece of information"
the word I am using to convey that meaning is
"fact"

Do you wish to speak about a "fact" as described above?

If not then we can always start a new topic after concluding this one.
The translation of the topic of discussion lies solely with the person making the claim.

You cannot change the topic simply because you want it to mean something else.
So which is it?
Do you accept the dictionary meaning of the word fact?
or
Would you like to start a new topic which uses a different meaning of the word?

That is only one definition of fact from one source.

It is also defined as:
  • the quality of being actual
  • something that has actual existence
  • an actual occurrence
  • a piece of information presented as having objective reality
  • something that actually exists; reality; truth:
  • something known to exist or to have happened:
  • a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
  • something said to be true or supposed to have happened:

So, instead of using your one cherry-picked definition that lets you play word games, how about we use a more common definition.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-01-2016, 03:26 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:04 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 02:28 PM)Banjo Wrote:  This guy still has yet to hit his hand with a hammer. This must mean he thinks he is more than thoughts. The pain cannot be "thought" away.

What a BS artist.
Your logic is:
Premise: The pain reached my brain without going through my thought process
Conclusion: Therefore pain & the hammer is real regardless of my thought process

Scientifically speaking:
There is no way the pain can reach your brain without going through your thought process.
The premise is false therefore the conclusion is false.
Invalid argument

You are quite wrong. The pain is felt before there is conscious recognition or thought.

Your argument is invalid as it is based on an incorrect understanding of neurology.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-01-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 02:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  https://www.google.com/search?q=google&i...fact+means
fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts
a thing that is indisputably the case.

It's the dictionary meaning.
Google also.
It's unedited.
When disseminating information always ensure that the recipient carries the same understanding as you do.

If I want to tell you that:
The fruit is red.
but in your language the word fruit is pronounced seed then I have to say:
This seed is red.
or ask you to learn my language

In this case my language is English as defined by the English dictionary.
the concept I am trying to portray is:
"an indisputable piece of information"
the word I am using to convey that meaning is
"fact"

Do you wish to speak about a "fact" as described above?

If not then we can always start a new topic after concluding this one.
The translation of the topic of discussion lies solely with the person making the claim.

You cannot change the topic simply because you want it to mean something else.
So which is it?
Do you accept the dictionary meaning of the word fact?
or
Would you like to start a new topic which uses a different meaning of the word?

That is only one definition of fact from one source.

It is also defined as:
  • the quality of being actual
  • something that has actual existence
  • an actual occurrence
  • a piece of information presented as having objective reality
  • something that actually exists; reality; truth:
  • something known to exist or to have happened:
  • a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
  • something said to be true or supposed to have happened:

So, instead of using your one cherry-picked definition that lets you play word games, how about we use a more common definition.
It would be considered cherry picking if they carry alternative meanings.
As far as I can tell they all mean the same thing. Do you agree?

A statement was made once.
The earth was flat.
It was considered a fact.
This statement is no longer considered a fact.

What makes a fact no longer a fact?
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