Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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18-01-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
Bugger! No idea why there are double posts. Blush
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18-01-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 04:56 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 09:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I claimed thoughts are the only thing we know exists for certain.
And as I showed in your previous bout of pseudo-philosophical wankery in the "what am I" thread (which you completely avoided answering...twice) you don't actually KNOW that.
I must have missed that post where you showed how we don't know if thoughts (as in the thinking process) exist.
Can you repost here?
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18-01-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:18 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 04:56 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Ha ha!

As for "Where do we go from here?" To the hospital you retard. Big Grin
How do we end up in the hospital after an exercise in thought?
I only stated that the result of any such experiment would not disprove the existence of reality outside of perception.
I haven't even assumed we tried the experiment yet, so no it does not follow that we could possibly end up in the hospital.
Did I miss the joke?

No. You are the joke. If you broke your fucking arm, you would go to a hospital, and you fucking know it. 100 % certainty.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2016, 08:24 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 03:49 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Chas I already defined "thought" as the "process of thinking".

This is the dictionary meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=google&i...ught+means
thought
noun
the action or process of thinking.

I even went further to post the anatomy of a thought.
http://michaelbalchan.com/braininfrastru...vid=4s4TeL

Furthermore I am the original poster of the topic.
When I say thought the meaning I wish to portray is "the process of thinking". If you find alternative meanings to the word thought please know that I do not wish to convey those meanings as it is not relevant to the topic I am discussing.
You are free to start a new topic with those alternative meanings to prove a new point you may be trying to make.
...
(17-01-2016 11:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
thought:
noun
1. an idea or opinion produced by thinking, or occurring suddenly in the mind.
2. the action or process of thinking.
https://www.google.tt/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=anac...ught+means
...

Ah! I can see now why you struggled to answer my question.

You are equivocating between the two.

Your OP talks about 'thoughts' as in the noun but now you are defining it as the process i.e. the action.

No need to thank me. I'm happy to have helped.

Thumbsup

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18-01-2016, 08:25 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 05:13 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 04:59 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  100% of the evidence gathered so far indicates existence proceeding any mind at all.
0% of the evidence suggests that it did not.

I'd like to know where you got odds of 50/50 from. Was it a butt shaped cavern? I bet it was a butt shaped cavern.

Yeah, things like this giganotosaurus never existed. Big Grin

[Image: Giganotosaurus_AustMus_email.jpg]
This is no different than you claiming you are not inside a video game. How can you prove it without first assuming that you are not inside a video game?
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18-01-2016, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2016 08:51 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:18 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  How do we end up in the hospital after an exercise in thought?
I only stated that the result of any such experiment would not disprove the existence of reality outside of perception.
I haven't even assumed we tried the experiment yet, so no it does not follow that we could possibly end up in the hospital.
Did I miss the joke?

No. You are the joke. If you broke your fucking arm, you would go to a hospital, and you fucking know it. 100 % certainty.
So what happens if I wake up in the hospital bed only to be told I was hooked up to a super computer that mimics real life so perfectly that I cannot tell the difference & my arm was perfectly fine?
Does the word 100% certainty take on a new meaning or do I consider my past belief to be a dishonest one?
How can you claim 100% certainty when you cannot be 100% certain?

We agree on the following:
You are 100% certain within the framework of your limited knowledge that something exists.
I am 100% certain that thoughts & self awareness exists therefore everything within the framework of self awareness exists.

Here is the part where we are disagreeing on:
You are 100% certain that things exist outside of your senses even if you have no physical interaction with it. Sight, Touch, Smell, Hear, Taste.
I am uncertain if anything outside of my senses exist until I have physical interaction with it.
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18-01-2016, 08:38 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
So.. we're back to the brain in a vat again.

As I posted before, giving you/accepting such a premise..... Then how might one test such a thing?
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18-01-2016, 08:38 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:24 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 03:49 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Chas I already defined "thought" as the "process of thinking".

This is the dictionary meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=google&i...ught+means
thought
noun
the action or process of thinking.

I even went further to post the anatomy of a thought.
http://michaelbalchan.com/braininfrastru...vid=4s4TeL

Furthermore I am the original poster of the topic.
When I say thought the meaning I wish to portray is "the process of thinking". If you find alternative meanings to the word thought please know that I do not wish to convey those meanings as it is not relevant to the topic I am discussing.
You are free to start a new topic with those alternative meanings to prove a new point you may be trying to make.
...
(17-01-2016 11:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
thought:
noun
1. an idea or opinion produced by thinking, or occurring suddenly in the mind.
2. the action or process of thinking.
https://www.google.tt/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=anac...ught+means
...

Ah! I can see now why you struggled to answer my question.

You are equivocating between the two.

Your OP talks about 'thoughts' as in the noun but now you are defining it as the process i.e. the action.

No need to thank me. I'm happy to have helped.

Thumbsup
It was a copy/paste but I can see why it was misleading all the same.
My apologies.
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18-01-2016, 08:41 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:38 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  So.. we're back to the brain in a vat again.

As I posted before, giving you/accepting such a premise..... Then how might one test such a thing?
I don't accept the premise as 100% true. It is only one probable form of reality. There are many other possibilities.
I have no way of testing it.
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18-01-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:15 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 04:50 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Break your arm. Do you feel pain? Absolutely. Do you have 100% functionality in your arm? No. Even if you really really think hard about it.. like super duper hard? Nope.

Why is that?
I never made the claim we can control reality through self awareness. Did you read someone else's post and posted here in error?
Are you even speaking to me?
See I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but when your this blatantly evasive it's kinda hard.
Banjo said "hit yourself with a hammer" to which your responded by pointing out that pain is a thought process (which is...kinda right in a very very narrow sense) so therefor it's a pointless experiment. I'm trying to illustrate that pain is not the totality of the outcome of damaging yourself. Pain very well could be just a "thought process" but the lack of functionality in a damaged limb is entirely independent of "thought processes". No matter what what your self awareness thinks you will be unable to lift a couch with a broken arm. This REQUIRES something to exist, a reality, outside the mind and to say otherwise requires evidence to the contrary.

Not only that but your whole argument is superfluous as no one, not even you, operates as if it was true. You still function as if everything is real just like everyone else. Which is why this nonsense pseudo-intellectual wankery never interests me. Your are trying to present some profound and logical world view when the truth of the matter is you would have to completely ignore it in your day to day life rendering it utterly pointless as an intellectual pursuit.
"Absolute knowledge" is a nonsense phrase people only ever trout out when they are trying to justify a thing as possible when they have no evidence for that thing. Scientists don't talk about absolute knowledge, scientifically illiterate theists and first year philosophy students do. It's the only place on the map their nonsense has left to hide.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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