Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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18-01-2016, 08:44 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. You are the joke. If you broke your fucking arm, you would go to a hospital, and you fucking know it. 100 % certainty.
So what happens if I wake up in the hospital bed only to be told I was hooked up to a super computer that mimics real life so perfectly that I cannot tell the difference & my arm was perfectly fine?
Does the word 100% certainty take on a new meaning or do I consider my past belief to be a dishonest one?
How can you claim 100% certainty when you cannot be 100% certain?

I *am* 100 % certain that you would seek medical help if you broke your arm.

Your scenario about waking up in the bed is irrelevant and has no bearing on the question. It's evasion. There is no evidence at this point that is possible, so the question is "Why would you even bring that up?" .... AND it appears to be a symptom. If you are really serious about that concern, then you do need help.
http://www.psyweb.com/lifestyle/depressi...erthinking

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2016, 08:48 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:41 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:38 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  So.. we're back to the brain in a vat again.

As I posted before, giving you/accepting such a premise..... Then how might one test such a thing?
I don't accept the premise as 100% true. It is only one probable form of reality. There are many other possibilities.
I have no way of testing it.

*Sigh* Okay... what are the other possible realities?

And again, how might you test to see if any of them are true?

On top of perhaps you answering the question of how you might test for 'Brain in a vat' syndrome? As well as answering the question I posed about this,

(18-01-2016 04:36 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I already stated the only thing I am absolutely certain exists are thoughts.

Also, what is it that you posit as true? (100% not withstanding. Tongue )
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18-01-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:22 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I must have missed that post where you showed how we don't know if thoughts (as in the thinking process) exist.
Can you repost here?
Sure why not.
(16-01-2016 02:11 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  One thing I'd like to point out is if we want to play this "but how do you KNOW?" game is that well...you don't actually KNOW your thoughts are real. Or even your own. Or even an actual thing. For example:
How do you know that it's not someone else who is a "brain-in-a-vat" and you are not a part of the fabricated reality which is complex enough to generate thoughts for you and convince you they are yours?
How do you know that you were not magicked into existence a 100th of a billionth of a second ago with all your thoughts prefabricated? How do you know it's not the next second, or the next second or the next second or the second after that?
How do you know your thoughts are your thoughts and not collections of predetermined data placed there by an outside source every thought?
You can't actually know your thoughts are your own, are real, or that thoughts can even be real. Your "thought process" could not be a process at all, it could all be predetermined, implanted, hell it could be no different then looking at words on a book in that they were placed there you have no say and you have never actually engaged in anything like a process at all.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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18-01-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:41 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have no way of testing it.

Which makes it unfalseafiable and thus entirely worthless and worth no ones time. Unfalsifiable hypotheses are hypotheses that can be discarded out of hand, the fact you have defined something as untestable doesn't make it unassailable it makes it useless.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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18-01-2016, 09:00 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2016 09:14 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:42 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:15 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I never made the claim we can control reality through self awareness. Did you read someone else's post and posted here in error?
Are you even speaking to me?
See I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but when your this blatantly evasive it's kinda hard.
Banjo said "hit yourself with a hammer" to which your responded by pointing out that pain is a thought process (which is...kinda right in a very very narrow sense) so therefor it's a pointless experiment. I'm trying to illustrate that pain is not the totality of the outcome of damaging yourself. Pain very well could be just a "thought process" but the lack of functionality in a damaged limb is entirely independent of "thought processes". No matter what what your self awareness thinks you will be unable to lift a couch with a broken arm. This REQUIRES something to exist, a reality, outside the mind and to say otherwise requires evidence to the contrary.

Not only that but your whole argument is superfluous as no one, not even you, operates as if it was true. You still function as if everything is real just like everyone else. Which is why this nonsense pseudo-intellectual wankery never interests me. Your are trying to present some profound and logical world view when the truth of the matter is you would have to completely ignore it in your day to day life rendering it utterly pointless as an intellectual pursuit.
"Absolute knowledge" is a nonsense phrase people only ever trout out when they are trying to justify a thing as possible when they have no evidence for that thing. Scientists don't talk about absolute knowledge, scientifically illiterate theists and first year philosophy students do. It's the only place on the map their nonsense has left to hide.
When have I ever denied the possibility that the arm could be broken?
I am speaking about things that we are not self aware of. The broken arm is something that we can be self aware of so I can exercise 100% certainty.
Maybe the word "thought awareness" isn't the right word & I should have been using "self awareness" all along to avoid any misconceptions. It's my fault because the term is so close to Solipsism & I try hard to avoid using terms that relate to it. It's such an illogical world view.
My apologies. I will try not to do that again.

When I make the statement I am 100% certain thoughts exist, it is in reference to anything that exists within "self awareness".

The only disagreements I have had thus far with other posters is this:
Some of them are 100% certain that things exist outside of their senses even if they have no physical interaction with it. ie. Sight, Touch, Smell, Hear, Taste.
I am uncertain if anything outside of my senses exist until I have physical interaction with it.
It would be dishonest for me to say something like I am 100% certain Niagara Falls exists. I rather think that it's possible.

I am probably in the minority due to my total honesty approach to life, but I cannot be dishonest with myself nor do I wish to be dishonest with others as to my world view.
Others may ridicule me if I make the honest claim that I am uncertain if Niagara Falls exists because even though I am being honest I am also in the minority.

Theists ridicule Atheists when they make the honest claim that they are uncertain if God exists, because even though they are being honest, they are also in the minority

I thought coming here to join a forum of persons in a minority with a similar view to honesty would be a little more open to another honest person in a minority group. It's not what I expected but I am appreciating it all the same.
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18-01-2016, 09:06 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The only disagreements I have had thus far with other posters is this:
Some of them are 100% certain that things exist outside of their senses even if they have no physical interaction with it. ie. Sight, Touch, Smell, Hear, Taste.
I am uncertain if anything outside of my senses exist until I have physical interaction with it.

Blink

Dafaq?

That makes no SENSE!

Facepalm

Your senses ARE what you're interacting with things WITH!

Your bare, nekkid thoughts aren't going out and caressing other...... Cthuhlu knows what.
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18-01-2016, 09:07 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  So what happens if I wake up in the hospital bed only to be told I was hooked up to a super computer that mimics real life so perfectly that I cannot tell the difference & my arm was perfectly fine?

Why would you believe them? Well anyway assuming your not a bloody lemming that just believes everything he is told what you should do first is ask for evidence. If someone tells you you are hooked up to a super computer and you still can't lift a fuckin' thing cause your arm is broken then it's a good sign they are not telling the truth. If they can't produce said super computer for examination for example. The time to believe something is when soemthing has been demonstrated to exist.

What I would rather you do however is stop answering peoples questions with evasive little questions of your own that don't actually address the criticism. Especially with pedantic little "what ifs", JAQing off doesn't interest anyone here.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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18-01-2016, 09:16 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 08:48 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:41 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I don't accept the premise as 100% true. It is only one probable form of reality. There are many other possibilities.
I have no way of testing it.

*Sigh* Okay... what are the other possible realities?

And again, how might you test to see if any of them are true?

On top of perhaps you answering the question of how you might test for 'Brain in a vat' syndrome? As well as answering the question I posed about this,

(18-01-2016 04:36 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I already stated the only thing I am absolutely certain exists are thoughts.

Also, what is it that you posit as true? (100% not withstanding. Tongue )
Maybe the word "thought awareness" isn't the right word & I should have been using "self awareness" all along to avoid any misconceptions. It's my fault because the term is so close to Solipsism & I try hard to avoid using terms that relate to it. It's such an illogical world view.
My apologies. I will try not to do that again.

When I make the statement I am 100% certain thoughts exist, it is in reference to anything that exists within "self awareness".

The only disagreements I have had thus far with other posters is this:
Some of them are 100% certain that things exist outside of their senses even if they have no physical interaction with it. ie. Sight, Touch, Smell, Hear, Taste.
I am uncertain if anything outside of my senses exist until I have physical interaction with it.
It would be dishonest for me to say something like I am 100% certain Niagara Falls exists. I rather think that it's possible.

I am probably in the minority due to my total honesty approach to life, but I cannot be dishonest with myself nor do I wish to be dishonest with others as to my world view.
Others may ridicule me if I make the honest claim that I am uncertain if Niagara Falls exists because even though I am being honest I am also in the minority.

Theists ridicule Atheists when they make the honest claim that they are uncertain if God exists, because even though they are being honest, they are also in the minority

I thought coming here to join a forum of persons in a minority with a similar view to honesty would be a little more open to another honest person in a minority group. It's not what I expected but I am appreciating it all the same.
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18-01-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:06 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 09:00 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The only disagreements I have had thus far with other posters is this:
Some of them are 100% certain that things exist outside of their senses even if they have no physical interaction with it. ie. Sight, Touch, Smell, Hear, Taste.
I am uncertain if anything outside of my senses exist until I have physical interaction with it.

Blink

Dafaq?

That makes no SENSE!

Facepalm

Your senses ARE what you're interacting with things WITH!

Your bare, nekkid thoughts aren't going out and caressing other...... Cthuhlu knows what.
I was using the word thoughts in reference to "self awareness" which involves the 5 senses.

Maybe the word "thought awareness" isn't the right word & I should have been using "self awareness" all along to avoid any misconceptions. It's my fault because the term is so close to Solipsism & I try hard to avoid using terms that relate to it. It's such an illogical world view.
My apologies. I will try not to do that again.

When I make the statement I am 100% certain thoughts exist, it is in reference to anything that exists within "self awareness".

The only disagreements I have had thus far with other posters is this:
Some of them are 100% certain that things exist outside of their senses even if they have no physical interaction with it. ie. Sight, Touch, Smell, Hear, Taste.
I am uncertain if anything outside of my senses exist until I have physical interaction with it.
It would be dishonest for me to say something like I am 100% certain Niagara Falls exists. I rather think that it's possible.

I am probably in the minority due to my total honesty approach to life, but I cannot be dishonest with myself nor do I wish to be dishonest with others as to my world view.
Others may ridicule me if I make the honest claim that I am uncertain if Niagara Falls exists because even though I am being honest I am also in the minority.

Theists ridicule Atheists when they make the honest claim that they are uncertain if God exists, because even though they are being honest, they are also in the minority

I thought coming here to join a forum of persons in a minority with a similar view to honesty would be a little more open to another honest person in a minority group. It's not what I expected but I am appreciating it all the same.
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18-01-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:07 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  So what happens if I wake up in the hospital bed only to be told I was hooked up to a super computer that mimics real life so perfectly that I cannot tell the difference & my arm was perfectly fine?

Why would you believe them? Well anyway assuming your not a bloody lemming that just believes everything he is told what you should do first is ask for evidence. If someone tells you you are hooked up to a super computer and you still can't lift a fuckin' thing cause your arm is broken then it's a good sign they are not telling the truth. If they can't produce said super computer for examination for example. The time to believe something is when soemthing has been demonstrated to exist.

What I would rather you do however is stop answering peoples questions with evasive little questions of your own that don't actually address the criticism. Especially with pedantic little "what ifs", JAQing off doesn't interest anyone here.
In this scenario I believed my arm to be broken 100% before I woke up in a hospital bed due to how real the pain felt and me not being able to use my arm.
I woke up and everything was fine. The arm not broken or scarred and fully functional.
Their story seems more likely to be true.
All this proves is that i can never know for certain & my best bet is to trust my senses in any given situation
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