Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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18-01-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:19 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Others may ridicule me if I make the honest claim that I am uncertain if Niagara Falls exists because even though I am being honest I am also in the minority.

No one is going to ridicule you because you give what is in your own opinion an honest response (though I don't think it is but whatever). People are going to ridicule you because for your uncertainty to be justified would require that every single scrap of demonstrable, falsifiable, testable, and repeatable evidence we have for anything at all would have to be wrong all at once everywhere and for everyone.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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18-01-2016, 09:58 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 09:43 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Not dishonest just overly cautious. Thoughts and self awareness go hand in hand.
It's quite probable I would have been called a Solipsist way may if had put self awareness in my op.
Still I take full responsibility for confusing many of you as a result of my own insecurities.

Dishonest rationalization. It DIRECTLY contradicts what you claimed in the OP. You are shown to be self-contradictory, and you try to obfuscate. "Thoughts and self awareness go hand in hand" has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the point you made it look like your were addressing. You are a solipsist. You are too dishonest to admit it.
Ok Bucky thoughts and self awareness are in no way closely related to each other. In fact they contradict each other.
Is this an honest statement?
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18-01-2016, 10:01 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
Okay.. lets examine this post.

(18-01-2016 09:52 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  By your logic if I had a mountain of evidence based on personal experience that my life is being guided by some divine force each time I asked for help, I would be stupid not to continue asking this divine force for help.

Actually... (Assuming you are meaning the same things by "A mountain of evidence" that the original poster of said statement and that I am sure I understand their allusion of) then YES, yes you would be stupid to ignore said guiding information from said divine force for which there is a mountain of evidence FOR.

Notice the caveat in the above? "Mountain of evidence for."


(18-01-2016 09:52 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Please tell me this is not what you are saying. I gave up on God ages ago even when I had good reason to still believe.
Sorry for the personal commentary.

I have no idea what WhiskeyDebates is saying though I can read his posts very clearly and understand the meaning therein.

Hug No worries about the personal commentary stuff. Smile
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18-01-2016, 10:02 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 09:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Dishonest rationalization. It DIRECTLY contradicts what you claimed in the OP. You are shown to be self-contradictory, and you try to obfuscate. "Thoughts and self awareness go hand in hand" has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the point you made it look like your were addressing. You are a solipsist. You are too dishonest to admit it.
Ok Bucky thoughts and self awareness are in no way closely related to each other. In fact they contradict each other.
Is this an honest statement?

Are you on drugs ? You can't even follow your OWN statements.
Something is very fishy here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2016, 10:06 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 10:01 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay.. lets examine this post.

(18-01-2016 09:52 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  By your logic if I had a mountain of evidence based on personal experience that my life is being guided by some divine force each time I asked for help, I would be stupid not to continue asking this divine force for help.

Actually... (Assuming you are meaning the same things by "A mountain of evidence" that the original poster of said statement and that I am sure I understand their allusion of) then YES, yes you would be stupid to ignore said guiding information from said divine force for which there is a mountain of evidence FOR.

Notice the caveat in the above? "Mountain of evidence for."


(18-01-2016 09:52 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Please tell me this is not what you are saying. I gave up on God ages ago even when I had good reason to still believe.
Sorry for the personal commentary.

I have no idea what WhiskeyDebates is saying though I can read his posts very clearly and understand the meaning therein.

Hug No worries about the personal commentary stuff. Smile
Would a mountain of evidence include the teachings of my Geography teacher & also countless individuals telling me Niagara falls exists?
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18-01-2016, 10:07 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 10:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 09:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Ok Bucky thoughts and self awareness are in no way closely related to each other. In fact they contradict each other.
Is this an honest statement?

Are you on drugs ? You can't even follow your OWN statements.
Something is very fishy here.
There is just no pleasing you is there? Even when I'm agreeing with you, you find flaw.
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18-01-2016, 10:11 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You are further emphasizing my point Whiskey.
Actually I'm not and the fact you think I am is a fairly good example of how unqualified you are to be even having this conversation.

(18-01-2016 09:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I wanted to show the utter uselessness of believing in something that cannot be tested.
Except an independent reality or a reality that operates independent of the "thought processes" of those that inhabit it CAN be tested so you haven't shown anything.

(18-01-2016 09:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The whole brain in a vat theory is no different than believing in reality before self awareness.

Firstly now you are equivocating back to solipsism and it's starting to get annoying. Secondly it's not a theory it's a hypothesis at best (it's actually not even that but I digress) and it's largely unfalsifiable at that.
Thirdly it is actually different as we can make predictions based on the hypotheses and EVERY SINGLE prediction we make around the hypothesis that reality exists before a mind can become self aware has been correct. NO predictions for the hypothesis of BiaV have been shown to be accurate.


Do you have a SINGLE example of a self aware mind existing outsides of a physical brain?

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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18-01-2016, 10:13 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 10:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 10:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Are you on drugs ? You can't even follow your OWN statements.
Something is very fishy here.
There is just no pleasing you is there? Even when I'm agreeing with you, you find flaw.

..very fishy..
*backing away .... slowly*

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-01-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:58 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 09:49 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Dishonest rationalization. It DIRECTLY contradicts what you claimed in the OP. You are shown to be self-contradictory, and you try to obfuscate. "Thoughts and self awareness go hand in hand" has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with the point you made it look like your were addressing. You are a solipsist. You are too dishonest to admit it.
Ok Bucky thoughts and self awareness are in no way closely related to each other. In fact they contradict each other.
Is this an honest statement?
See and now you are just deliberately misrepresenting his criticism and I'm beginning to lose my desire to give you the benefit of the doubt.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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18-01-2016, 10:21 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(18-01-2016 09:52 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  By your logic if I had a mountain of evidence based on personal experience that my life is being guided by some divine force each time I asked for help, I would be stupid not to continue asking this divine force for help.
Personal anecdotes aren't even the equivalent of a flat field of evidence. Evidence is demonstrable, testable, falsifiable, and repeatable. Confusing correlation with causation is not evidence.
Your making a false comparison between the mountains of objective, demonstrable, testable, falsifiable, and repeatable evidence we have for the existence of reality before self awareness with personal anecdotes about a supernatural being.

(18-01-2016 09:52 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I gave up on God ages ago even when I had good reason to still believe.
Were those reasons better than personal anecdotes and a inability to separate correlation from causation?

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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