Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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19-01-2016, 05:07 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:04 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 01:42 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It is an untestable hypothesis.
Therefore completely useless & should not be believed in.

It's pretty testable to those willing to jump ... and those cleaning up the mess.
What do you think you are testing for?
Providing you lived.
You will be severely injured, in pain & proven that you your perception of reality is 100% real. Which is the same thing I believe in.
The question still lies "what exists outside of perception?"
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19-01-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 04:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 02:15 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're boring and stupid. You don't deserve the quality of replies that you've gotten. Jesus FUCK. What is with every two bit wannabe philosopher coming here to spout their crap?

Shane: "Does reality exist regardless of how I perceive it?"

Peebo, Whiskey, Bucky, Clydee & Chas: "Yes!"

Peebo: "brain in a vat again... Then how might one test such a thing"

Shane: "I have no way of testing it."

Whiskey: "Which makes it unfalseafiable and thus entirely worthless and worth no ones time."

Shane: "You are further emphasizing my point Whiskey. I wanted to show the utter uselessness of believing in something that cannot be tested."
"I am uncertain if reality exists regardless of my perception" Therefore why believe it does?

Whiskey: "there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence to support the hypothesis that reality outside of the individual exists"

Shane: "By your logic if I had ... evidence ... that my life is being guided by some divine force ... I would be stupid not to continue asking this divine force for help."

Peebo: "yes you would be stupid to ignore said guiding information from said divine force for which there is a mountain of evidence FOR."

Whiskey: "Your making a false comparison between the mountains of objective, demonstrable, testable, falsifiable, and repeatable evidence we have for the existence of reality before self awareness with personal anecdotes about a supernatural being."

Shane: "This would require me not believing in the existence of anything until I have personally went through the mountain of evidence?"

WhiskeyDebates: "You don't need to review ALL the evidence just enough evidence as to make the belief rational"

Shane: "At which point do I accept the claim that Niagara exists?"

ClydeeLee: "It's up to you to decide at what point you find the criteria "justified" enough to accept it"

Shane: Didn't you all say reality is supposed to exist regardless of my perception? "How did you ever come to that conclusion?" Did you test it? Was it demonstrable, testable, falsifiable & repeatable?

cjlr: "In the strictest sense it is impossible to prove or know anything beyond your own perceptions"

Whiskey: "You're entire position can't be tested in any way"

Shane: I'm confused. It was never my position. I do not claim that "Reality can exist regardless of my perception." That was what you guys were claiming. I claimed uncertainty outside of perception & certainty within.

There is no certainty of one's perception. The senses can be fooled.
It is about the evidence from many people's perceptions.

Quote:I am still waiting for you to answer how you tested for reality without the use of perception.

No one said that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-01-2016, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 05:37 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 04:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Shane: "Does reality exist regardless of how I perceive it?"

Peebo, Whiskey, Bucky, Clydee & Chas: "Yes!"

Peebo: "brain in a vat again... Then how might one test such a thing"

Shane: "I have no way of testing it."

Whiskey: "Which makes it unfalseafiable and thus entirely worthless and worth no ones time."

Shane: "You are further emphasizing my point Whiskey. I wanted to show the utter uselessness of believing in something that cannot be tested."
"I am uncertain if reality exists regardless of my perception" Therefore why believe it does?

Whiskey: "there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence to support the hypothesis that reality outside of the individual exists"

Shane: "By your logic if I had ... evidence ... that my life is being guided by some divine force ... I would be stupid not to continue asking this divine force for help."

Peebo: "yes you would be stupid to ignore said guiding information from said divine force for which there is a mountain of evidence FOR."

Whiskey: "Your making a false comparison between the mountains of objective, demonstrable, testable, falsifiable, and repeatable evidence we have for the existence of reality before self awareness with personal anecdotes about a supernatural being."

Shane: "This would require me not believing in the existence of anything until I have personally went through the mountain of evidence?"

WhiskeyDebates: "You don't need to review ALL the evidence just enough evidence as to make the belief rational"

Shane: "At which point do I accept the claim that Niagara exists?"

ClydeeLee: "It's up to you to decide at what point you find the criteria "justified" enough to accept it"

Shane: Didn't you all say reality is supposed to exist regardless of my perception? "How did you ever come to that conclusion?" Did you test it? Was it demonstrable, testable, falsifiable & repeatable?

cjlr: "In the strictest sense it is impossible to prove or know anything beyond your own perceptions"

Whiskey: "You're entire position can't be tested in any way"

Shane: I'm confused. It was never my position. I do not claim that "Reality can exist regardless of my perception." That was what you guys were claiming. I claimed uncertainty outside of perception & certainty within.

There is no certainty of one's perception. The senses can be fooled.
It is about the evidence from many people's perceptions.

Quote:I am still waiting for you to answer how you tested for reality without the use of perception.

No one said that.
Chas: "There is no certainty of one's perception. The senses can be fooled.
It is about the evidence from many people's perceptions."

Shane: Does this mean you trust in other people's perception more than your own? How are you certain their senses cannot be fooled?

Shane: When you say "There is no certainty of one's perception" but claim the evidence can be found in other people's perception does this not mean you think "reality can exist regardless of your perception"?
Do you think reality exists regardless of perception?
Have you ever tested it?
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19-01-2016, 05:45 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:04 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  It's pretty testable to those willing to jump ... and those cleaning up the mess.
What do you think you are testing for?
Providing you lived.
You will be severely injured, in pain & proven that you your perception of reality is 100% real. Which is the same thing I believe in.
The question still lies "what exists outside of perception?"

The question is useless, given that your question has an inbuilt and undemonstrated claim.
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19-01-2016, 05:46 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:07 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 02:03 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  No. The belief in "Reality existing regardless of how you perceive it" is untestable in the same way God's existence is untestable.
It is a completely useless belief and therefore should not be believed in.

Yet here you are interacting with people. That seems to me to indicate that you don't believe what you are propounding.
I am propounding that the reality I perceive via personal experience is 100% real.
I am unsure about anything else, but we don't propound uncertainty now do we?
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19-01-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:45 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:07 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  What do you think you are testing for?
Providing you lived.
You will be severely injured, in pain & proven that you your perception of reality is 100% real. Which is the same thing I believe in.
The question still lies "what exists outside of perception?"

The question is useless, given that your question has an inbuilt and undemonstrated claim.
My question is not a claim nor does it have one.
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19-01-2016, 05:50 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:07 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Yet here you are interacting with people. That seems to me to indicate that you don't believe what you are propounding.
I am propounding that the reality I perceive via personal experience is 100% real.
I am unsure about anything else, but we don't propound uncertainty now do we?

You're conflating "real" and "objective". The two words are not homonyms.
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19-01-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:48 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:45 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The question is useless, given that your question has an inbuilt and undemonstrated claim.
My question is not a claim.

It has a claim built into it. Please read what I write to avoid misunderstandings.
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19-01-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 04:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am still waiting for you to answer how you tested for reality without the use of perception.

That is a meaningless request. We're still waiting for you to cook up a legitimate reason why that is a question even worth bothering with, other than playing your obcessive/compulsive trite little game here.

It also has nothing to do with your nonsensical OP.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-01-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no certainty of one's perception. The senses can be fooled.
It is about the evidence from many people's perceptions.


No one said that.
Chas: "There is no certainty of one's perception. The senses can be fooled.
It is about the evidence from many people's perceptions."

Shane: Does this mean you trust in other people's perception more than your own? How are you certain their senses cannot be fooled?

When multiple people's multiple senses are repeatedly tested, then we can be sure of the results. That is how science is done.

Quote:Shane: When you say "There is no certainty of one's perception" but claim the evidence can be found in other people's perception

See above.

Quote:does this not mean you think "reality can exist regardless of your perception"?

Yes.

Quote:Do you think reality exists regardless of perception?

Yes.
Electrons existed before anyone perceived them.
Quasars existed before anyone perceived them.
Black swans existed before anyone perceived them.
Dinosaurs existed before any human even existed to perceive them.

Quote:Have you ever tested it?

Reality exists regardless of any one person's perception. It is continually tested.
Everyone but sophists knows this.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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