Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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19-01-2016, 05:57 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:50 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am propounding that the reality I perceive via personal experience is 100% real.
I am unsure about anything else, but we don't propound uncertainty now do we?

You're conflating "real" and "objective". The two words are not homonyms.
Thump: "The two words are not homonyms"
Shane: Agreed.
Homonyms (also called homophones) are words that sound like one another but have different meanings. Some homonyms are spelled the same, like bark (the sound a dog makes) and bark (the outer layer of a tree trunk).

Thump: "You're conflating "real" and "objective""
Shane: I shouldn't be using the word real then?
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19-01-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:51 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:48 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  My question is not a claim nor does it have one.

It has a claim built into it. Please read what I write to avoid misunderstandings.
I don't see the claim. Maybe I am wrong. Can you tell me what the claim is?
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19-01-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 04:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I am still waiting for you to answer how you tested for reality without the use of perception.

That is a meaningless request. We're still waiting for you to cook up a legitimate reason why that is a question even worth bothering with, other than playing your obcessive/compulsive trite little game here.

It also has nothing to do with your nonsensical OP.
Then we have no disagreements then.
Except the post being nonsenseical
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19-01-2016, 06:08 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 05:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Chas: "There is no certainty of one's perception. The senses can be fooled.
It is about the evidence from many people's perceptions."

Shane: Does this mean you trust in other people's perception more than your own? How are you certain their senses cannot be fooled?

When multiple people's multiple senses are repeatedly tested, then we can be sure of the results. That is how science is done.

Quote:Shane: When you say "There is no certainty of one's perception" but claim the evidence can be found in other people's perception

See above.

Quote:does this not mean you think "reality can exist regardless of your perception"?

Yes.

Quote:Do you think reality exists regardless of perception?

Yes.
Electrons existed before anyone perceived them.
Quasars existed before anyone perceived them.
Black swans existed before anyone perceived them.
Dinosaurs existed before any human even existed to perceive them.

Quote:Have you ever tested it?

Reality exists regardless of any one person's perception. It is continually tested.
Everyone but sophists knows this.
Chas: "When multiple people's multiple senses are repeatedly tested, then we can be sure of the results. That is how science is done."
Shane: Agreed "that is how science is done"
Except
What do you mean by "sure"? Absolute certainty?
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19-01-2016, 06:12 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 06:08 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 05:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  When multiple people's multiple senses are repeatedly tested, then we can be sure of the results. That is how science is done.


See above.


Yes.


Yes.
Electrons existed before anyone perceived them.
Quasars existed before anyone perceived them.
Black swans existed before anyone perceived them.
Dinosaurs existed before any human even existed to perceive them.


Reality exists regardless of any one person's perception. It is continually tested.
Everyone but sophists knows this.
Chas: "When multiple people's multiple senses are repeatedly tested, then we can be sure of the results. That is how science is done."
Shane: Agreed "that is how science is done"
Except
What do you mean by "sure"? Absolute certainty?

It is only you who is hung up on the concept of absolute certainty. Drinking Beverage

All knowledge is tentative; new evidence can overturn it or reinforce it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-01-2016, 06:17 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have probably answered more replies per day in a single thread than any other user on these forums.
Haha no. You're not even in the top 30, and that's even if i count your evasive non-answers as "answers". Which I don't. Even if I did I fail to see how wasting everyones time with your pseudo-intellectual masterbataorial bullshit is a thing to brag about.
(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I do not evade questions.
Well that's bullshit and demonstrably so, there are several questions I have asked you in MULTIPLE posts in two different threads now that you have entirely failed to answer despite quoting them in your responses more than once.
When I make a post containing criticism and you respond to every bloody sentence except the criticism I'd call that evasive. When I point out that you evaded it and then post it again at your request and you STILL respond to EVERYTHING I have said except that criticism I'd call that evasive. I'd also call that a tell tale sign of an asshole looking to waste my time.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If you have some unaddressed points that you think I have overlooked simply put them here so I can address them.
Firstly I don't think you have overlooked them I think you have ignored them and that's different. they have been posted multiple times in 2 threads and are the only thing you haven't responded to even with one of your non-answers.
Secondly seeing as how I have already reposted them once at your request just to have them ignored how about fuck you do the leg work your damn self.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have shown why the claim cannot be properly tested.
No you have asserted that, and to do that you had to rely on multiple objects and people that exist outside your own perception to do it. You refute your own assertion every time you make it through a computer and over the internet.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It shouldn't be hard to prove me wrong.
It's not up to me to demonstrate you wrong it's up to you to demonstrate your right and so far you have failed miserably. Your hypothesis has no exploitative power, makes no testable predictions, is not internally consistent, is based on a presupposition itself, and you personally abandon it the second you have to do ANYTHING in reality.
Also I did prove you wrong already, your inability to grasp why doesn't change that. I don't have to, nor do I personally require you to, convince you your nonsense is nonsense for it to be nonsense.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If it can be properly tested then simply show me how.
Already did that it was in one of the responses you ignored.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Please don't just say something like " it can be tested because we have tested it many times"
Such a statement does no prove anything
Actually if we conduct the same test over and over and over and over and we get the same answer each and every time completely irregardless of outside influences then that thing is considered to be true. I'm getting rather sick of explaining this to you just for you to pretend like it's not the case for no goddamn reason.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  yet 90% of the responses to me are plagued with only this as the rebuttal.
And now you are just outright strawmanning the opposition.

How about you drop philosophy and pick up a science textbook, you might not get to enjoy masturbating in public as much but you won't look as much like a pedantic idiot arguing over things that don't mater in the slightest.

Here is question for you: lets say for the sake of argument that self awareness is the only thing that we can know with "absolute certainty" to exist....so fucking what? It doesn't make atheism or theism illogical or irrational as neither of those beliefs are predicated on absolute certainty, so what the fuck is your point kid?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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19-01-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
Maybe AS is just a bad dream we are all having. Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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19-01-2016, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 07:45 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 06:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 06:08 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Chas: "When multiple people's multiple senses are repeatedly tested, then we can be sure of the results. That is how science is done."
Shane: Agreed "that is how science is done"
Except
What do you mean by "sure"? Absolute certainty?

It is only you who is hung up on the concept of absolute certainty. Drinking Beverage

All knowledge is tentative; new evidence can overturn it or reinforce it.
Chas: "All knowledge is tentative; new evidence can overturn it or reinforce it."
Shane: Agreed.

Chas: "It is only you who is hung up on the concept of absolute certainty."
Shane: I am not hung up on it. Simply expessing/defending the claim that my existence, self awareness & perception is provable because I can think about it. I cannot deny that I am thinking & I can test that I am, thus factual and by extension absolutely certain.

I believe hung up would be someone that continuously repeats it even when no one else is discussing it. If hung up means to continuously reply with the same point every time the posters comment about it, then I may be guilty.

Oh & thanks for removing the neg. I would pos you for your honesty but I don't know how.
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19-01-2016, 07:38 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 08:04 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 06:17 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have probably answered more replies per day in a single thread than any other user on these forums.
Haha no. You're not even in the top 30, and that's even if i count your evasive non-answers as "answers". Which I don't. Even if I did I fail to see how wasting everyones time with your pseudo-intellectual masterbataorial bullshit is a thing to brag about.
(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I do not evade questions.
Well that's bullshit and demonstrably so, there are several questions I have asked you in MULTIPLE posts in two different threads now that you have entirely failed to answer despite quoting them in your responses more than once.
When I make a post containing criticism and you respond to every bloody sentence except the criticism I'd call that evasive. When I point out that you evaded it and then post it again at your request and you STILL respond to EVERYTHING I have said except that criticism I'd call that evasive. I'd also call that a tell tale sign of an asshole looking to waste my time.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If you have some unaddressed points that you think I have overlooked simply put them here so I can address them.
Firstly I don't think you have overlooked them I think you have ignored them and that's different. they have been posted multiple times in 2 threads and are the only thing you haven't responded to even with one of your non-answers.
Secondly seeing as how I have already reposted them once at your request just to have them ignored how about fuck you do the leg work your damn self.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I have shown why the claim cannot be properly tested.
No you have asserted that, and to do that you had to rely on multiple objects and people that exist outside your own perception to do it. You refute your own assertion every time you make it through a computer and over the internet.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It shouldn't be hard to prove me wrong.
It's not up to me to demonstrate you wrong it's up to you to demonstrate your right and so far you have failed miserably. Your hypothesis has no exploitative power, makes no testable predictions, is not internally consistent, is based on a presupposition itself, and you personally abandon it the second you have to do ANYTHING in reality.
Also I did prove you wrong already, your inability to grasp why doesn't change that. I don't have to, nor do I personally require you to, convince you your nonsense is nonsense for it to be nonsense.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If it can be properly tested then simply show me how.
Already did that it was in one of the responses you ignored.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Please don't just say something like " it can be tested because we have tested it many times"
Such a statement does no prove anything
Actually if we conduct the same test over and over and over and over and we get the same answer each and every time completely irregardless of outside influences then that thing is considered to be true. I'm getting rather sick of explaining this to you just for you to pretend like it's not the case for no goddamn reason.

(19-01-2016 01:46 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  yet 90% of the responses to me are plagued with only this as the rebuttal.
And now you are just outright strawmanning the opposition.

How about you drop philosophy and pick up a science textbook, you might not get to enjoy masturbating in public as much but you won't look as much like a pedantic idiot arguing over things that don't mater in the slightest.

Here is question for you: lets say for the sake of argument that self awareness is the only thing that we can know with "absolute certainty" to exist....so fucking what? It doesn't make atheism or theism illogical or irrational as neither of those beliefs are predicated on absolute certainty, so what the fuck is your point kid?
Shane: "Please don't just say something like " it can be tested because we have tested it many times"
Such a statement does no prove anything"
Whiskey: "Actually if we conduct the same test over and over and over and over and we get the same answer each and every time completely irregardless of outside influences then that thing is considered to be true. I'm getting rather sick of explaining this to you just for you to pretend like it's not the case for no goddamn reason."

Shane: I rest my case.
The only thing you are explaining is that you can explain it.
Facepalm my first face palm on these forums.

Request:
Please stop using unnecessary shotgun arguments. It adds clutter & gives the illusion of evasion on the part of your opponent.
Let's stick to the main issues. Keep it simple and calm down. You will give yourself a migraine soon and probably blame me for it.

Whiskey: "Secondly seeing as how I have already reposted them once at your request just to have them ignored how about fuck you do the leg work your damn self."
Shane: Sorry didn't find any relating to the topic. You may have posted it in another thread? Drinking Beverage my first tea cup now.
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19-01-2016, 07:43 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 06:08 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  What do you mean by "sure"? Absolute certainty?

I am absolutely certain that I am not absolutely certain about dick. ... bitch.

#sigh
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