Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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19-01-2016, 10:14 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 10:26 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 10:10 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 10:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "Adds to the weirdness" is evidence of nothing. Nothing at all. It says NOTHING like what you lamely claimed it says.

You got nothing. There is NO GUT (Grand Unification Theory) yet. They did not claim they had one. You don't have one.
Grow up.
Bucky are you even reading the article? This research was out since last year.
"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence," said Truscott. "It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it.”
Even though the findings of the experiment add to the perceived weirdness of quantum theory, the results also validate it. But, even without regard to the weird aspects, quantum physics almost certainly governs the world at the atomic level, and this existence has enabled the development of quantum technologies ranging from cryptography to solar cells."
It's been indisputable since. The world of science recognizes it as a fact until it can be disproven.

You are astoundingly ignorant. There is nothing new here. You have no clue what you are even talking about. There has always been a disconnect between the quantum world and the macro world. The ENERGY of the system is not changed. Nothing is "created". You have NO CLUE what you are talking about, although ....... you do seem to be 100% certain that the reality BEFORE the observation was made not only existed, but was changed. Kinda refutes all your own bullshit there, now doesn't it sport. The only way any of this supports you bullshit, would be if the whole system, including the atoms (which YOU PRESUMED existed before any observations were even started) sprang into existence upon observation.

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19-01-2016, 10:27 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 10:33 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 10:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 10:10 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Bucky are you even reading the article? This research was out since last year.
"The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence," said Truscott. "It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it.”
Even though the findings of the experiment add to the perceived weirdness of quantum theory, the results also validate it. But, even without regard to the weird aspects, quantum physics almost certainly governs the world at the atomic level, and this existence has enabled the development of quantum technologies ranging from cryptography to solar cells."
It's been indisputable since. The world of science recognizes it as a fact until it can be disproven.

You are astoundingly ignorant. There is nothing new here. You have no clue what you are even talking about. There has always been a disconnect between the quantum world and the macro world. The ENERGY of the system is not changed. Nothing is "created". You have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
The word created was used to describe creation of new movement and new positioning within space/time. Not creation of new energy. What are you playing at now Bucky? Are you going to claim that movement and positioning in space time does not affect reality?
Are you going to claim that Quantum reality is not part of our current reality?
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19-01-2016, 10:44 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Shane: I rest my case.
You don't have a case you have assertions based on an unfounded presupposition. Ones entirely without evidence and thus can be dismissed without evidence.

I'm also going to point out that you quoted my entire post, addressed none of the criticisms, avoided my questions, just regurgitated the same argument, and then tried to just declare your self the victor.

AGAIN.
Entirely avoid the criticisms. Evasive.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The only thing you are explaining is that you can explain it.
Actually I'm not and the fact you think so is another good example that you are entirely unqualified for this discussion.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Please stop using unnecessary shotgun arguments.
Considering some of the posts you have made? Hypocrite much? Stop making lazy excuses.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It adds clutter & gives the illusion of evasion on the part of your opponent.
No you addressing every single thing I say except my questions and criticisms, even in the post where you say you are not doing just that is what makes you an actual evasive dishonest sonofabitch. No illusion required.
Even in posts that have contained 1 single question you avoid it.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Keep it simple and calm down. You will give yourself a migraine soon and probably blame me for it.
Oh goody, the same tactics the theists use are out now, surprise surprise. I gave you the benefit of the doubt several times and you continued to be evasive and intellectually dishonest. If I swear it's because you have lost the rights to my politeness, not because I'm angry. Get over yourself princess.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Whiskey: "Secondly seeing as how I have already reposted them once at your request just to have them ignored how about fuck you do the leg work your damn self."
Shane: Sorry didn't find any relating to the topic. You may have posted it in another thread?
Really man? Intellectually dishonest and lazy, what a winning combo. Fine I'll do it for you.
(18-01-2016 08:53 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 08:22 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I must have missed that post where you showed how we don't know if thoughts (as in the thinking process) exist.
Can you repost here?
Sure why not.
(16-01-2016 02:11 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  One thing I'd like to point out is if we want to play this "but how do you KNOW?" game is that well...you don't actually KNOW your thoughts are real. Or even your own. Or even an actual thing. For example:
How do you know that it's not someone else who is a "brain-in-a-vat" and you are not a part of the fabricated reality which is complex enough to generate thoughts for you and convince you they are yours?
How do you know that you were not magicked into existence a 100th of a billionth of a second ago with all your thoughts prefabricated? How do you know it's not the next second, or the next second or the next second or the second after that?
How do you know your thoughts are your thoughts and not collections of predetermined data placed there by an outside source every thought?
You can't actually know your thoughts are your own, are real, or that thoughts can even be real. Your "thought process" could not be a process at all, it could all be predetermined, implanted, hell it could be no different then looking at words on a book in that they were placed there you have no say and you have never actually engaged in anything like a process at all.
You responded to every post before this post and all the ones immediately following it. The post directly after this one is by me and you respond to it so it's not like you could have missed it. You have been dishonest and evasive and I'm at the point I no longer want to waste my time on someone so obviously not interested in a dialog. This is the 5th time I have brought these criticisms to your attention. This is just ONE example. You are a waste of my time kid, and all for a bunch of wannabe philosophical jerking off.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Drinking Beverage my first tea cup now.
Case it down with some crow cause it was in this thread and in plain fucking sight you dishonest amateur.

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19-01-2016, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 11:08 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 10:27 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 10:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are astoundingly ignorant. There is nothing new here. You have no clue what you are even talking about. There has always been a disconnect between the quantum world and the macro world. The ENERGY of the system is not changed. Nothing is "created". You have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
The word created was used to describe creation of new movement and new positioning within space/time. Not creation of new energy. What are you playing at now Bucky? Are you going to claim that movement and positioning in space time does not affect reality?
Are you going to claim that Quantum reality is not part of our current reality?

So .... are you 100 % certain that quantum reality, and all that it entails is real ? Bwahahaha. You just denied EVERYTHING you ever said here.
You : "The double slit experiment shows that particle/wave duality is created by perception through measurement.
The "particle wave duality" is the reality of the entire system. Before and after. And you failed to address what you find inconvenient ... we all see.
Your equivocation has just been exposed again. The word CREATED was used by YOU to mean something else. Stop lying about what other people say. You have enough to do lying about what YOU say.

Quote:Are you going to claim that Quantum reality is not part of our current reality?

Surely you mean YOUR current reality. Weeping

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19-01-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 10:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 10:27 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The word created was used to describe creation of new movement and new positioning within space/time. Not creation of new energy. What are you playing at now Bucky? Are you going to claim that movement and positioning in space time does not affect reality?
Are you going to claim that Quantum reality is not part of our current reality?

So .... are you 100 % certain that quantum reality, and all that it entails is real ? Bwawawawawa. You just denied EVERYTHING you ever said here.
You : "The double slit experiment shows that particle/wave duality is created by perception through measurement.
The "particle wave duality" is the reality of the entire system. Before and after. And you failed to address what you find inconvenient ... we all see.
Your equivocation has just been exposed again. The word CREATED was used by YOU to mean something else. Stop lying about what other people say. You have enough to do lying about what YOU say.
Bucky: "So .... are you 100 % certain that quantum reality, and all that it entails is real"
Shane: No. I am not 100% certain of anything unless I can personally experience it.
Why should this affect discussion & testing of claims?
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19-01-2016, 11:12 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 11:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 10:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So .... are you 100 % certain that quantum reality, and all that it entails is real ? Bwawawawawa. You just denied EVERYTHING you ever said here.
You : "The double slit experiment shows that particle/wave duality is created by perception through measurement.
The "particle wave duality" is the reality of the entire system. Before and after. And you failed to address what you find inconvenient ... we all see.
Your equivocation has just been exposed again. The word CREATED was used by YOU to mean something else. Stop lying about what other people say. You have enough to do lying about what YOU say.
Bucky: "So .... are you 100 % certain that quantum reality, and all that it entails is real"
Shane: No. I am not 100% certain of anything unless I can personally experience it.
Why should this affect discussion & testing of claims?

What do you plan on doing with the quantum test results to 'experience them personally' ? Stick them up your butt ?

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19-01-2016, 11:23 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 11:29 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 10:44 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Shane: I rest my case.
You don't have a case you have assertions based on an unfounded presupposition. Ones entirely without evidence and thus can be dismissed without evidence.

I'm also going to point out that you quoted my entire post, addressed none of the criticisms, avoided my questions, just regurgitated the same argument, and then tried to just declare your self the victor.

AGAIN.
Entirely avoid the criticisms. Evasive.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The only thing you are explaining is that you can explain it.
Actually I'm not and the fact you think so is another good example that you are entirely unqualified for this discussion.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Please stop using unnecessary shotgun arguments.
Considering some of the posts you have made? Hypocrite much? Stop making lazy excuses.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It adds clutter & gives the illusion of evasion on the part of your opponent.
No you addressing every single thing I say except my questions and criticisms, even in the post where you say you are not doing just that is what makes you an actual evasive dishonest sonofabitch. No illusion required.
Even in posts that have contained 1 single question you avoid it.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Keep it simple and calm down. You will give yourself a migraine soon and probably blame me for it.
Oh goody, the same tactics the theists use are out now, surprise surprise. I gave you the benefit of the doubt several times and you continued to be evasive and intellectually dishonest. If I swear it's because you have lost the rights to my politeness, not because I'm angry. Get over yourself princess.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Whiskey: "Secondly seeing as how I have already reposted them once at your request just to have them ignored how about fuck you do the leg work your damn self."
Shane: Sorry didn't find any relating to the topic. You may have posted it in another thread?
Really man? Intellectually dishonest and lazy, what a winning combo. Fine I'll do it for you.
(18-01-2016 08:53 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Sure why not.
You can't actually know your thoughts are your own, are real, or that thoughts can even be real. Your "thought process" could not be a process at all, it could all be predetermined, implanted, hell it could be no different then looking at words on a book in that they were placed there you have no say and you have never actually engaged in anything like a process at all.
You responded to every post before this post and all the ones immediately following it. The post directly after this one is by me and you respond to it so it's not like you could have missed it. You have been dishonest and evasive and I'm at the point I no longer want to waste my time on someone so obviously not interested in a dialog. This is the 5th time I have brought these criticisms to your attention. This is just ONE example. You are a waste of my time kid, and all for a bunch of wannabe philosophical jerking off.

(19-01-2016 07:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Drinking Beverage my first tea cup now.
Case it down with some crow cause it was in this thread and in plain fucking sight you dishonest amateur.
Whiskey: "You can't actually know your thoughts are your own, are real, or that thoughts can even be real. Your "thought process" could not be a process at all, it could all be predetermined, implanted, hell it could be no different then looking at words on a book in that they were placed there you have no say and you have never actually engaged in anything like a process at all"

Shane: There is one huge flaw in your logic. In my OP I stated that I am not necessarily me. Think I am being dishonest about that?

Why do you think I wrote this:
"For the sake of simplicity "I" or "my" refers to the author(s) of this post."
What do you think I could possibly mean by that? It is just as you described above & I am in very much agreement with the possibilities you just described.
That post remains unedited right down to the very first reply (ask the moderators)
Also I don't have the power to go back in time and dishonestly edit it.

You may have overlooked it, but I knew exactly what I was doing when I wrote it, just as much as I knew someone would make the assumption you just made.

I wasn't being dishonest in this situation now was I?
A nice "sorry" would do. Let's keep it respectful until all the evidence is examined.
Innocent until proven guilty or Guilty until proven innocent?

Moving on. What other points did I presumably evade/avoid?
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19-01-2016, 11:35 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2016 11:47 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 11:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 11:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Bucky: "So .... are you 100 % certain that quantum reality, and all that it entails is real"
Shane: No. I am not 100% certain of anything unless I can personally experience it.
Why should this affect discussion & testing of claims?

What do you plan on doing with the quantum test results to 'experience them personally' ? Stick them up your butt ?
Conduct research on faster than light communication/data transfer over extremely far distances if we can somehow find a way to control the results using the quantum entanglement of particle spin maybe?
Many other possible usages from continued research into the field of quantum spookiness can develop.
Would you have them dismiss the research because of it's current uselessness?
That would be counterproductive.

Bucky: "Surely you mean YOUR current reality."
Shane: I am already personally experiencing your existence through my self awareness & interaction so I know you exist. What you exist as is another question all together but it does not detract from the fact that you are now part of my reality.
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19-01-2016, 11:48 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 11:35 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 11:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What do you plan on doing with the quantum test results to 'experience them personally' ? Stick them up your butt ?
Conduct research on faster than light communication/data transfer over extremely far distances if we can somehow find a way to control the results using the quantum entanglement of particle spin maybe?
Many other possible usages from continued research into the field of quantum spookiness can develop.
Would you have them dismiss the research because of it's current uselessness?
That would be counterproductive.

You didn't answer the question posed to you. You evaded it by going off on an irrelevant tangent, then made up a straw man argument which no one made, and instead of answering the question, addressed your made up straw man. We can all see your MO here. Your schtick is rather annoying, and very obvious.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-01-2016, 11:53 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(19-01-2016 11:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-01-2016 11:35 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Conduct research on faster than light communication/data transfer over extremely far distances if we can somehow find a way to control the results using the quantum entanglement of particle spin maybe?
Many other possible usages from continued research into the field of quantum spookiness can develop.
Would you have them dismiss the research because of it's current uselessness?
That would be counterproductive.

You didn't answer the question posed to you. You evaded it by going off on an irrelevant tangent, then made up a straw man argument which no one made, and instead of answering the question, addressed your made up straw man. We can all see your MO here. Your schtick is rather annoying, and very obvious.
I may have misunderstood the question then.
Are you asking me how do I plan to experience the research personally?
I haven't made any such plans
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