Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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20-01-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 06:56 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  To make the claim there is a true reality is no different than the belief in an all powerful God as a being that can perceive such a reality.

Fixed that for you. Oh, I think you might like meeting Borges if you haven't yet. Thumbsup

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20-01-2016, 07:33 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 07:43 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 06:56 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  To make the claim there is a true reality is no different than the belief in an all powerful God as a being that can perceive such a reality.

Fixed that for you. Oh, I think you might like meeting Borges if you haven't yet. Thumbsup

The Circular Ruins
Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?
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20-01-2016, 07:41 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Fixed that for you. Oh, I think you might like meeting Borges if you haven't yet. Thumbsup

The Circular Ruins
Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality that could possibly exist outside of what we can test for within the limits of our own awareness & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

I can't parse that. I'm seeing like 3 different orthogonal dimensions. Could you rephrase it for me?

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20-01-2016, 07:43 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 06:56 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 06:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You left out Wheeler's delayed choice experiment. It is not at all clear whether these apparent paradoxes are intrinsic to "reality" or just quirks/limitations of human intelligence and reasoning and yes perception. In either case, reality is nothing like we think it is.
Definitely can't argue against that.
It shouldn't be like we think it is. Everyone's reality cannot be the same if we are to believe others exist & they also perceive reality through self awareness.
Reality would exist at any point in the spectrum & still be reality based on perception. It need not be a case that your reality is greater or better than another.
In my op I asked "Does my reality exist outside my perception" the obvious answer is no because of the wording. It's a rhetorical question.
It can only be answered "No" because my reality can only be my own and no one else's.

How does one lay claim to a reality that is not their own?
Science tells us:
Insects & animals observe a totally different world than our own. What they see & smell we may never experience it. Dolphins & bats have sonar perception by which they see the world around them in a manner we can only imagine but never truly perceive unless we become them.
Even among us humans we do not all share the same personal reality.

Here is the ugly truth about the evasive true reality.
A few of us will never see the same color as the rest.
Some may never hear a B sharp.
Some will never be able to smell a good Pizza.
Some will never be able to taste the sweetness of a fruit in the same way you do.
Some people do not even derive pleasure from sex.
What makes one think they do not know what is true reality?
Does one think simply because one belongs to the majority one might know a better reality?
If we all went blind tomorrow except you due to some disease does that mean your reality is closer to a false reality because you belong to the minority?
Which entity get's to make the claim their reality is the true reality?
What makes a reality closer to the spectrum of truth than the spectrum of false?
Does adding more ways to perceive reality make it more true?
If yes a cocaine addict would have a truer reality than mine or yours.
How would you even begin to define true reality without assuming the perception of another being?
To make the claim there can be a true reality is no different than the belief in an all powerful God as a being that can perceive such a reality.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality that could possibly exist outside of what we can test for & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

The evidence that we perceive a single common reality is overwhelming.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-01-2016, 07:44 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

I can't parse that. I'm seeing like 3 different orthogonal dimensions. Could you rephrase it for me?
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20-01-2016, 07:45 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 07:55 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  The evidence that we perceive a single common reality is overwhelming.

Consensus of a population with common sensors is expected. Don't mean it's real. Reality is irrelevant. As a pragmatist how would I change my behavior if it was all just a simulation and not "real" as we commonly understand it (how do we commonly understand it?) Not at all. Reality is irrelevant to my condition.

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20-01-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 11:41 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think we need a new thread section.
General mental fapping

And that's not philosophy, how?

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20-01-2016, 07:57 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 08:08 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Fixed that for you. Oh, I think you might like meeting Borges if you haven't yet. Thumbsup

The Circular Ruins
Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality that could possibly exist outside of what we can test for within the limits of our own awareness & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

You are lying to yourself.

You are here arguing with a reality outside yourself. You wouldn't be doing that unless you believed there is a reality outside your own perception. You are trying to convince an external reality of your ideas. You don't really buy your own bullshit. If you did REALLY buy into your own bullshit, you would not be here trying to convince anyone of anything. Your presence and posts here refute yourself, and prove you to be a liar.

You are, of necessity, using language to interact with the external reality which obviously you seriously believe in. Language is a shared meaning set, which is a requirement for you to interact with the outside reality. That is another demonstration you don't really buy your own tripe. The use of a specific language shows us you do believe in a very specific external reality

You are required to interact with an external reality, daily, to stay alive. There is not an iota of difference in practical effect, produced in the life of a solipsist by solopcism, (which you are), than never having thought about the solipsist position. It's a useless concept.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-01-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:56 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 11:41 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think we need a new thread section.
General mental fapping

And that's not philosophy, how?

Just naming it what it is. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-01-2016, 08:12 PM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2016 04:52 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 06:56 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Definitely can't argue against that.
It shouldn't be like we think it is. Everyone's reality cannot be the same if we are to believe others exist & they also perceive reality through self awareness.
Reality would exist at any point in the spectrum & still be reality based on perception. It need not be a case that your reality is greater or better than another.
In my op I asked "Does my reality exist outside my perception" the obvious answer is no because of the wording. It's a rhetorical question.
It can only be answered "No" because my reality can only be my own and no one else's.

How does one lay claim to a reality that is not their own?
Science tells us:
Insects & animals observe a totally different world than our own. What they see & smell we may never experience it. Dolphins & bats have sonar perception by which they see the world around them in a manner we can only imagine but never truly perceive unless we become them.
Even among us humans we do not all share the same personal reality.

Here is the ugly truth about the evasive true reality.
A few of us will never see the same color as the rest.
Some may never hear a B sharp.
Some will never be able to smell a good Pizza.
Some will never be able to taste the sweetness of a fruit in the same way you do.
Some people do not even derive pleasure from sex.
What makes one think they do not know what is true reality?
Does one think simply because one belongs to the majority one might know a better reality?
If we all went blind tomorrow except you due to some disease does that mean your reality is closer to a false reality because you belong to the minority?
Which entity get's to make the claim their reality is the true reality?
What makes a reality closer to the spectrum of truth than the spectrum of false?
Does adding more ways to perceive reality make it more true?
If yes a cocaine addict would have a truer reality than mine or yours.
How would you even begin to define true reality without assuming the perception of another being?
To make the claim there can be a true reality is no different than the belief in an all powerful God as a being that can perceive such a reality.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality that could possibly exist outside of what we can test for & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

The evidence that we perceive a single common reality is overwhelming.
The evidence that we perceive a very uncommon reality is also overwhelming
What makes it more common than uncommon?
Do we all share the same friends?
Do we all watch the same shows?
Do we all eat the same food?
Do we all read the same books?
In fact everything that you claim as common is only common if we describe it commonly.
No one reality is more common than it is different.
How do you account for those that cannot perceive your reality?
The born deaf, mute, blind, color blind.
How do you explain to them that everything is common even when they can barely perceive what you could possibly mean by that.
To them everything is quite uncommon unless you tell them it's common.
War of the world's was broadcasted in a very common way and people believed it and became scared. They asked their neighbors who also heard it and became more scared because of how commonly the story was verified by another Neighbour.
Testimonies of people have proven to be useless at determining the truth.
Religious people do it all the time and convert 1000's to the fold.
It's inbuilt in us to believe in things this way. It's an evolutionary by product of fear of the unknown.
Atheism has the key to liberate us from fairy tale belief's, but it involves experiencing the truth on our own and stop believing in everything people tell us even if it bends conveniently to our own desires for certainty.
There is nothing wrong with being uncertain, it drives us to seek the truth.
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