Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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20-01-2016, 08:20 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality that could possibly exist outside of what we can test for within the limits of our own awareness & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

You are lying to yourself.

You are here arguing with a reality outside yourself. You wouldn't be doing that unless you believed there is a reality outside your own perception. You are trying to convince an external reality of your ideas. You don't really buy your own bullshit. If you did REALLY buy into your own bullshit, you would not be here trying to convince anyone of anything. Your presence and posts here refute yourself, and prove you to be a liar.

You are, of necessity, using language to interact with the external reality which obviously you seriously believe in. Language is a shared meaning set, which is a requirement for you to interact with the outside reality. That is another demonstration you don't really buy your own tripe. The use of a specific language shows us you do believe in a very specific external reality

You are required to interact with an external reality, daily, to stay alive. There is not an iota of difference in practical effect, produced in the life of a solipsist by solopcism, (which you are), than never having thought about the solipsist position. It's a useless concept.
I can see nothing wrong with telling someone what I perceive to be real through personal experience is very real to me. This in no way implies that I think their reality is any less real than mine & if they could somehow prove to me that my experience was untrue then I see no reason to continue to doubt them. Why believe in someone else's certainty when they haven't presented you with any real evidence for your personal experience to observe?
It further reiterates my claim that perspective reality is a form of absolute certainty
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20-01-2016, 08:23 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Fixed that for you. Oh, I think you might like meeting Borges if you haven't yet. Thumbsup

The Circular Ruins
Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

Thanks for more evidence. You believe in an external reality of atheists beings apart from yourself, as well as the shared notion of what the word "god' means to an external group of people your are convinced exist external to yourself. Thumbsup

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-01-2016, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 08:34 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 08:12 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The evidence that we perceive a very uncommon reality is also overwhelming
What makes it more common than uncommon?
Do we all share the same friends?
Do we all watch the same shows?
Do we all eat the same food?
Do we all read the same books?
In fact everything that you claim as common is only common if we describe it commonly.
No one reality is more common than it is different.
How do you account for those that cannot perceive your reality?
The born deaf, mute, blind, color blind.
How do you explain to them that everything is common even when they can barely perceive what you could possibly mean by that.
To them everything is quite uncommon unless you tell them it's common.
War of the world's was broadcasted in a very common way and people believed it and became scared. They asked their neighbors who also heard it and became more scared because of how commonly the story was verified by another Neighbour.
Testimonies of people have proven to be useless at determining the truth.
Religious people do it all the time and convert 1000's to the fold.
It's inbuilt in us to believe in things this way. It's an evolutionary by product of fear of the unknown.

You going for the power set?


(20-01-2016 08:12 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Atheism has the key to liberate us from fairy tale belief's, but it involves experiencing the truth on our own and stop believing in everything people tell us even if it bends conveniently to our own desires for certainty.
Their is nothing wrong with being uncertain, it drives us to seek the truth.




There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-01-2016, 08:31 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 09:34 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
No. Without "my" thoughts "my" reality cannot exist.

Is a meaningless question and a trite tautology.
"No" what ? No one is trying to convince you of anything.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-01-2016, 08:34 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 08:12 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  The evidence that we perceive a single common reality is overwhelming.
The evidence that we perceive a very uncommon reality is also overwhelming
What makes it more common than uncommon?
Do we all share the same friends?
Do we all watch the same shows?
Do we all eat the same food?
Do we all read the same books?
In fact everything that you claim as common is only common if we describe it commonly.
No one reality is more common than it is different.
How do you account for those that cannot perceive your reality?
The born deaf, mute, blind, color blind.
How do you explain to them that everything is common even when they can barely perceive what you could possibly mean by that.
To them everything is quite uncommon unless you tell them it's common.
War of the world's was broadcasted in a very common way and people believed it and became scared. They asked their neighbors who also heard it and became more scared because of how commonly the story was verified by another Neighbour.
Testimonies of people have proven to be useless at determining the truth.
Religious people do it all the time and convert 1000's to the fold.
It's inbuilt in us to believe in things this way. It's an evolutionary by product of fear of the unknown.
Atheism has the key to liberate us from fairy tale belief's, but it involves experiencing the truth on our own and stop believing in everything people tell us even if it bends conveniently to our own desires for certainty.
Their is nothing wrong with being uncertain, it drives us to seek the truth.

Thanks for the sermon, Father.
So .... there is a "truth". Woops.
Yet another contradiction.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-01-2016, 08:38 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 08:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Can you fix this one as well.
How can an atheist believe in the existence of a true reality & yet deny the existence of god?
What is the deciding factor that makes one claim rational and the other a fairy tale?

Thanks for more evidence. You believe in an external reality of atheists beings apart from yourself, as well as the shared notion of what the word "god' means to an external group of people your are convinced exist external to yourself. Thumbsup

Are you implying that I believe that our realities do not in some way overlap & intertwine?
Why would that be the only possible way reality can exist?
I have no reason to believe that perspective realities are not joined in some way.
Reality of 4 persons that only know 1 in the group would simply look like the overlapping 4 circles of the Audi logo in an infinite and ultimately unknowable progression of Audi logos.
We only know a partial reality of those that we are joined to and cannot possibly know the other circles except by communicating with the adjacent circles only through the area we are joined.
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20-01-2016, 08:39 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 08:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 08:12 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The evidence that we perceive a very uncommon reality is also overwhelming
What makes it more common than uncommon?
Do we all share the same friends?
Do we all watch the same shows?
Do we all eat the same food?
Do we all read the same books?
In fact everything that you claim as common is only common if we describe it commonly.
No one reality is more common than it is different.
How do you account for those that cannot perceive your reality?
The born deaf, mute, blind, color blind.
How do you explain to them that everything is common even when they can barely perceive what you could possibly mean by that.
To them everything is quite uncommon unless you tell them it's common.
War of the world's was broadcasted in a very common way and people believed it and became scared. They asked their neighbors who also heard it and became more scared because of how commonly the story was verified by another Neighbour.
Testimonies of people have proven to be useless at determining the truth.
Religious people do it all the time and convert 1000's to the fold.
It's inbuilt in us to believe in things this way. It's an evolutionary by product of fear of the unknown.
Atheism has the key to liberate us from fairy tale belief's, but it involves experiencing the truth on our own and stop believing in everything people tell us even if it bends conveniently to our own desires for certainty.
Their is nothing wrong with being uncertain, it drives us to seek the truth.

Thanks for the sermon, Father.
So .... there is a "truth". Woops.
Yet another contradiction.
Did someone make the claim that there wasn't truth?
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20-01-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 07:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 07:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  The evidence that we perceive a single common reality is overwhelming.

Consensus of a population with common sensors is expected. Don't mean it's real. Reality is irrelevant. As a pragmatist how would I change my behavior if it was all just a simulation and not "real" as we commonly understand it (how do we commonly understand it?) Not at all. Reality is irrelevant to my condition.

Maybe to yours, but reality has an annoying habit of smacking one in the face. Consider

Our commonly evolved sensors evolved in response to that reality.
The only other choice is Last Thursdayism or its ilk.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-01-2016, 08:46 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 08:39 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 08:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thanks for the sermon, Father.
So .... there is a "truth". Woops.
Yet another contradiction.
Did someone make the claim that there wasn't truth?

Yeah. You.

Quote:It is just as likely to believe that there is no reality before thought awareness as it is to believe that there is one. Any statement I make which claims absolute truth requires foreknowledge of reality before thought awareness, except one.
I know reality exists because thoughts exist. Thoughts being simply "the process of thinking". Thoughts are the only known true reality.

Not why would you have to "seek" your own thoughts" ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-01-2016, 08:46 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(20-01-2016 08:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 09:34 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
No. Without "my" thoughts "my" reality cannot exist.

Is a meaningless question and a trite tautology.
"No" what ? No one is trying to convince you of anything.
Then we are in agreement. It is a rhetorical question and the claim shouldn't be believed in by rational thinking people.
It's no different than a fairy tale & the existence of God.
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