Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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21-01-2016, 11:05 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:01 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 10:51 AM)cjlr Wrote:  I didn't particularly agree with you; I tried to comment and you mischaracterised me in your response.

You can't give rep while negative yourself.
You did agree that we cannot know anything for certain outside our perception.

We cannot know that our perception is certain either, which is an aspect you've consistently evaded.

Furthermore, very few people have outright denied that. They have denied the conclusions you draw from it.
(notwithstanding the irrelevance of the whole matter)

(21-01-2016 11:01 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  "I do not know" is such an honest statement to make when you're in doubt.

Your misunderstandings of quantum mechanics are very much the opposite of "I don't know". They are simply wrong.

(21-01-2016 11:01 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I know it's a hard nut to swallow when you end up agreeing with someone you dislike. I can't help you here. You will either have to change your stance or continue agreeing with me on that point because I'm not about to change my stance.

I do not think you entirely understood my critique.

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21-01-2016, 11:30 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 10:21 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You dishonestly refuse to move ahead in the discussion.
Which would be something other then bullshit if it was not for the fact that of the two responses, one which is making fun of you for being a blatant hypocrite and the other containing the complete refutation of your entire position, you chose to respond to the mockery and completely ignore the one with hard questions and criticisms.

AGAIN. For like the dozenth fucking time.

You have no interest in truth, just in regurgitating your conclusions and presuppositions.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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21-01-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:30 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 10:21 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You dishonestly refuse to move ahead in the discussion.
Which would be something other then bullshit if it was not for the fact that of the two responses, one which is making fun of you for being a blatant hypocrite and the other containing the complete refutation of your entire position, you chose to respond to the mockery and completely ignore the one with hard questions and criticisms.

AGAIN. For like the dozenth fucking time.

You have no interest in truth, just in regurgitating your conclusions and presuppositions.

Well; maybe he just isn't perceiving the substantive criticism?

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21-01-2016, 11:33 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 10:38 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Would you have preferred I just ignored you?
What you mean like the dozen or so times you have completely ignored points and questions that demonstrate your entire position is self refuting, and inconsistent with not just reality but it's self?

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21-01-2016, 11:38 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 07:36 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 07:14 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Of course not. We do neither. It's all a fapping non-issue, (except for insane obsessional philosophers), not unlike yourself.
I actually do not mean this in an offensive way but...
"And your point is?"

I answered YOUR fucking question. THAT'S the fucking point. Facepalm

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21-01-2016, 11:54 AM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2016 12:04 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:05 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 11:01 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  You did agree that we cannot know anything for certain outside our perception.

We cannot know that our perception is certain either, which is an aspect you've consistently evaded.

Furthermore, very few people have outright denied that. They have denied the conclusions you draw from it.
(notwithstanding the irrelevance of the whole matter)

(21-01-2016 11:01 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  "I do not know" is such an honest statement to make when you're in doubt.

Your misunderstandings of quantum mechanics are very much the opposite of "I don't know". They are simply wrong.

(21-01-2016 11:01 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I know it's a hard nut to swallow when you end up agreeing with someone you dislike. I can't help you here. You will either have to change your stance or continue agreeing with me on that point because I'm not about to change my stance.

I do not think you entirely understood my critique.
Thump: "Your misunderstandings of quantum mechanics are very much the opposite of "I don't know". They are simply wrong."


Are you saying "I claim I am right"? I am not claiming right or wrong here. I am giving information within the scope of my knowledge base. Claiming right or wrong is not a prerequisite of disseminating information for the purpose of learning.
Claiming right or wrong is a pre-requisite of preaching.
Stating your personal beliefs (regardless of it being right or wrong) is a pre-requisite of honesty.
Knowingly misrepresenting you personal beliefs (regardless of it being right or wrong) is a pre-requisite of dishonesty.
Why would being right or wrong be a pre-requisite of learning or teaching Quantum Mechanics? Curiosity for the student & knowledge for the teacher are the pre-requisites.
Would you make the claim your Science teacher shouldn't have been a teacher after I learned he was wrong about Pluto being a planet?
Right & Wrong are for preachers. I am not.

My thread seeks out the personal honesty of others.
If I see a seemingly dishonest statement I will address it.

I think you don't understand the meaning of claims & statements. (not preaching here)

claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
statement: a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing

Let me help you:
You assume I somehow claimed or stated "I know my understanding of quantum mechanics is right" (that's preaching)
I have never made a claim or statement as to the above. You may have jumped to that conclusion.

Here is an actual claim & statement:
"I don't know if my understanding of quantum mechanics is right or wrong." (not preaching)


You may be tempted to ask:
"Then why give information that you are unsure about?"
Maybe because I value research above preaching?

Consider this:
Knowing something is NOT a prerequisite of research.
Not knowing something IS a prerequisite of research & questions.
(again not preaching here, I could be wrong, I will let you decide)
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21-01-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 07:36 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I actually do not mean this in an offensive way but...
"And your point is?"

I answered YOUR fucking question. THAT'S the fucking point. Facepalm
You misunderstand
Let me rephrase:
What's the point of claiming something is "mental fapping"?
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21-01-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Are you saying "I claim I am right"? I am not claiming right or wrong here. I am giving information within the scope of my knowledge base. Claiming right or wrong is not a prerequisite of disseminating information for the purpose of learning.
Claiming right or wrong is a pre-requisite of preaching.
Stating your personal beliefs (regardless of it being right or wrong) is a pre-requisite of honesty.
Knowingly misrepresenting you personal beliefs (regardless of it being right or wrong) is a pre-requisite of dishonesty.
Why would being right or wrong be a pre-requisite of learning or teaching Quantum Mechanics? Curiosity for the student & knowledge for the teacher are the pre-requisites.
Would you make the claim your Science teacher shouldn't have been a teacher after I learned he was wrong about Pluto being a planet?
Right & Wrong are for preachers. I am not.

Refusing to acknowledge the corrections of others would serve no purpose unless you already supposed yourself correct.

Your rhetoric does not match your actions.

(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  My thread seeks out the personal honesty of others.
If I see a seemingly dishonest statement I will address it.

And yet you have dishonestly represented others, many times over.

(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I think you don't understand the difference between claims & statements. (not preaching here)

claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
statement: a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing

Can you tell the difference?

There is no meaningful difference. This is just you equivocating so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

Furthermore, a claim and an assertion are not the same thing. Your dishonest insertion of 'typically' notwithstanding.

It is indeed possible to construct content-free statements in a grammatical sense. No one cares. Nor is that what you seem to be attempting.

(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Let me help you:
You assume I somehow claimed or stated "I know my understanding of quantum mechanics is right" (that's preaching)
I have never made a claim or statement as to the above. You may have jumped to that conclusion.

Here is an actual claim & statement:
"I don't know if my understanding of quantum mechanics is right or wrong." (not preaching)


You may be tempted to ask:
"Then why give information that you are unsure about?"
Maybe because I value research above preaching?

Consider this:
Knowing something is NOT a prerequisite of research.
Not knowing something IS a prerequisite of research & questions.
(again not preaching here, I could be wrong, I will let you decide)

You were told repeatedly that you were wrong.

Rather than take those criticisms on board, you doubled down on your misunderstandings.

Is that honest behaviour?

You have done nothing but preaching here, in that you have refused to substantively engage with anyone else.

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21-01-2016, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2016 12:14 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Are you saying "I claim I am right"? I am not claiming right or wrong here. I am giving information within the scope of my knowledge base. Claiming right or wrong is not a prerequisite of disseminating information for the purpose of learning.
Claiming right or wrong is a pre-requisite of preaching.
Stating your personal beliefs (regardless of it being right or wrong) is a pre-requisite of honesty.
Knowingly misrepresenting you personal beliefs (regardless of it being right or wrong) is a pre-requisite of dishonesty.
Why would being right or wrong be a pre-requisite of learning or teaching Quantum Mechanics? Curiosity for the student & knowledge for the teacher are the pre-requisites.
Would you make the claim your Science teacher shouldn't have been a teacher after I learned he was wrong about Pluto being a planet?
Right & Wrong are for preachers. I am not.

Refusing to acknowledge the corrections of others would serve no purpose unless you already supposed yourself correct.

Your rhetoric does not match your actions.

(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  My thread seeks out the personal honesty of others.
If I see a seemingly dishonest statement I will address it.

And yet you have dishonestly represented others, many times over.

(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I think you don't understand the meaning of claims & statements. (not preaching here)

claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
statement: a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing

Let me help you:
You assume I somehow claimed or stated "I know my understanding of quantum mechanics is right" (that's preaching)
I have never made a claim or statement as to the above. You may have jumped to that conclusion.

Here is an actual claim & statement:
"I don't know if my understanding of quantum mechanics is right or wrong." (not preaching)

There is no meaningful difference. This is just you equivocating so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

Furthermore, a claim and an assertion are not the same thing. Your dishonest insertion of 'typically' notwithstanding.

It is indeed possible to construct content-free statements in a grammatical sense. No one cares. Nor is that what you seem to be attempting.

(21-01-2016 11:54 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Let me help you:
You assume I somehow claimed or stated "I know my understanding of quantum mechanics is right" (that's preaching)
I have never made a claim or statement as to the above. You may have jumped to that conclusion.

Here is an actual claim & statement:
"I don't know if my understanding of quantum mechanics is right or wrong." (not preaching)


You may be tempted to ask:
"Then why give information that you are unsure about?"
Maybe because I value research above preaching?

Consider this:
Knowing something is NOT a prerequisite of research.
Not knowing something IS a prerequisite of research & questions.
(again not preaching here, I could be wrong, I will let you decide)

You were told repeatedly that you were wrong.

Rather than take those criticisms on board, you doubled down on your misunderstandings.

Is that honest behaviour?

You have done nothing but preaching here, in that you have refused to substantively engage with anyone else.
I would gladly take the criticism if it addresses a point I have made.
If you correctly address a point I have not made then there is no criticism of my point.
We can't get passed that stage because everyone keeps mistaking:
"I do not know" for "I know" in my statements
They are 2 completely different statements.

I do not know if reality exists outside of perception
is not
I know reality does not exist outside of perception

We can end this entire debacle right now if you tell me which one of the above statements you think I am making.
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21-01-2016, 12:11 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(21-01-2016 11:59 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 11:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I answered YOUR fucking question. THAT'S the fucking point. Facepalm
You misunderstand
Let me rephrase:
What's the point of claiming something is "mental fapping"?

The point is, no rational person can claim perceptual certainty, including you. Yesterday YOU told us to look a a study which was relatively new. Your perceptions of reality changed after your read that, (more than likely). No one perceives total 100 % total (certain) perception of reality, and to claim it it irrational.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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