Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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17-01-2016, 10:48 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 10:17 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I never made the statement that all I am are my thoughts.
The statement I am making is the only thing that can be known for absolute certainty is that "thoughts exist".

Can you not differentiate between these statements:
I am certain A does exist
I am uncertain if B does or does not exist

At no point in the above statements do I make the claim I am certain B does not exist.

Yet you somehow manage to see me saying "I am certain B does not exist".

Okay.

So.. if the only thing that can be known for certain is that "Thoughts exist" thence where do your thoughts of/about/concerning Romans (As alluding back to the previous posts) come from?
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17-01-2016, 10:57 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 10:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 09:38 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  We cannot test for anything that existed before self awareness with absolute certainty. This is not to say that reality does not exists before self awareness. The probability remains 50/50 that reality exists pre self awareness
Humans and other mammals which are self-aware have existed for a infinitesimally tiny fraction of the time the universe existed. The probability that the universe which gave rise to present self-aware beings on this planet is more like 1.0. That's 100 % certainty. And we can do countless test to prove it. You may be so ignorant of math and science that you actually think it's 50/50, but that's your problem, Mr. Philosobabble.
Your statement pre supposes that reality exists pre self awareness.
How and when did you test this?
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?
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17-01-2016, 11:03 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 10:48 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:17 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I never made the statement that all I am are my thoughts.
The statement I am making is the only thing that can be known for absolute certainty is that "thoughts exist".

Can you not differentiate between these statements:
I am certain A does exist
I am uncertain if B does or does not exist

At no point in the above statements do I make the claim I am certain B does not exist.

Yet you somehow manage to see me saying "I am certain B does not exist".

Okay.

So.. if the only thing that can be known for certain is that "Thoughts exist" thence where do your thoughts of/about/concerning Romans (As alluding back to the previous posts) come from?
The possibility exists it came from outside the subset of thoughts which was then added to the thought process.
It is also possible that it did not come from outside the subset of thoughts & only existed within the thought process.
Either way it is absolutely certain it did pass through the thought process for the knowledge to have reached me.
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17-01-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 10:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 08:44 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  This statement:
" can you also indicate which one of my posts has an inclination to mental retardation"
should have read:
" can you also indicate which one of my posts has an inclination to mental illness"

You never called me a mental retard. I did not lie here, it was only a typo.

Regarding presupposition I am actually anti-presupposition.
One of the main points in the original post is that we should remove all presuppositions until the point in time we first became self aware & then consider what reality is.
Your last 2 paragraphs are seemingly irrelevant other than to attack my character.
Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent.

Typing "retard" instead of "illness" is not a *typo*. And THAT was another lie.
And I just happened to notice YOU did not address the POINT.
Which point was not addressed?
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17-01-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 10:57 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Humans and other mammals which are self-aware have existed for a infinitesimally tiny fraction of the time the universe existed. The probability that the universe which gave rise to present self-aware beings on this planet is more like 1.0. That's 100 % certainty. And we can do countless test to prove it. You may be so ignorant of math and science that you actually think it's 50/50, but that's your problem, Mr. Philosobabble.

Your statement pre supposes that reality exists pre self awareness.
How and when did you test this?
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?

No I didn't. Your ignorance is astounding. I'm done here playing with you, child.
My statement "presupposes" nothing. You obviously have no knowledge of science and how it has discovered what it knows about the universe, and are unable to think outside your mental illness. You have not examined or dismissed ANY of the multiple way science knows what it knows about the universe, and how it knows what it knows. That leads me to think you know nothing about what they are. Go play in your sand box, dear. You've succeeded in making a fool of yourself with that last one.

Quote:How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?

I don't have YOUR (personal) problem. I'm not insane.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-01-2016, 11:15 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2016 11:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:48 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay.

So.. if the only thing that can be known for certain is that "Thoughts exist" thence where do your thoughts of/about/concerning Romans (As alluding back to the previous posts) come from?
The possibility exists it came from outside the subset of thoughts which was then added to the thought process.
It is also possible that it did not come from outside the subset of thoughts & only existed within the thought process.
Either way it is absolutely certain it did pass through the thought process for the knowledge to have reached me.

Completely irrelevant evasion.
Either way, it was not in YOUR thoughts originally, which is the POINT. You ACQUIRED something true, from outside YOUR personal reality. You missed the point, entirely.
The fact about the Romans existed, apart from your reality, before and after you received the information. It did not "become real" at the point you became aware of it.

And there is a third possibility. It may have come to your thoughts up your ass, which is where your brain resides.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-01-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
Read this study. I just did. So can you.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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17-01-2016, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2016 11:34 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Either way it is absolutely certain it did pass through the thought process for the knowledge to have reached me.

Out of curiosity ... what are you defining as "the thought process".

And, would this process be a constant?

(17-01-2016 10:57 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?

I know that question was not addressed to me, but, yes ... don't we have to make that presupposition?

Or why else would we get out of bed?

Consider

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17-01-2016, 11:19 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:57 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Your statement pre supposes that reality exists pre self awareness.
How and when did you test this?
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?

No I didn't. Your ignorance is astounding. I'm done here playing with you, child.
My statement "presupposes" nothing. You obviously have no knowledge of science and how it has discovered what it knows about the universe, and are unable to think outside your mental illness. You have not examined or dismissed ANY of the multiple way science knows what it knows about the universe, and how it knows what it knows. That leads me to think you know nothing about what they are. Go play in your sand box, dear. You've succeeded in making a fool of yourself with that last one.

Quote:How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?

I don't have YOUR (personal) problem. I'm not insane.
Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent.
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?
The Logical Fallacy of Presupposition/Assumptive Thinking
http://www.seekfind.net/The_Logical_Fall...px1yPkrIdU
Did you read it in a science book or heard it from a scientist?
Appeal to authority (argumentum ab auctoritate) – where an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it.
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17-01-2016, 11:21 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:19 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No I didn't. Your ignorance is astounding. I'm done here playing with you, child.
My statement "presupposes" nothing. You obviously have no knowledge of science and how it has discovered what it knows about the universe, and are unable to think outside your mental illness. You have not examined or dismissed ANY of the multiple way science knows what it knows about the universe, and how it knows what it knows. That leads me to think you know nothing about what they are. Go play in your sand box, dear. You've succeeded in making a fool of yourself with that last one.


I don't have YOUR (personal) problem. I'm not insane.
Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent.
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?
The Logical Fallacy of Presupposition/Assumptive Thinking
http://www.seekfind.net/The_Logical_Fall...px1yPkrIdU

Read the study I linked. There is no need for this pointless discussion.

Or, you are nothing but a troll.

Make comments based upon the scientific study after having read it.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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