Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
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17-01-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:48 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay.

So.. if the only thing that can be known for certain is that "Thoughts exist" thence where do your thoughts of/about/concerning Romans (As alluding back to the previous posts) come from?
The possibility exists it came from outside the subset of thoughts which was then added to the thought process.
It is also possible that it did not come from outside the subset of thoughts & only existed within the thought process.
Either way it is absolutely certain it did pass through the thought process for the knowledge to have reached me.

Blink

So, how do you work out the difference?

How do you tell if it came from outside the subset of thoughts. How might you know there is an 'Outside the subset of thoughts'.

Why have you now included the distinction "Outside the subset of thoughts' as in making thoughts a subset. Subset of what?

So.. how might the whole 'Roman' thing (All the mental baggage as in culture, history, architecture, notable personages, interactions with other cultures, lasting legacies) some how actually get into the thoughts in the first place?

How might you tell the difference that there might be an 'Outside of thoughts'?
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17-01-2016, 11:26 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:19 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No I didn't. Your ignorance is astounding. I'm done here playing with you, child.
My statement "presupposes" nothing. You obviously have no knowledge of science and how it has discovered what it knows about the universe, and are unable to think outside your mental illness. You have not examined or dismissed ANY of the multiple way science knows what it knows about the universe, and how it knows what it knows. That leads me to think you know nothing about what they are. Go play in your sand box, dear. You've succeeded in making a fool of yourself with that last one.


I don't have YOUR (personal) problem. I'm not insane.
Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent.
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?
The Logical Fallacy of Presupposition/Assumptive Thinking
http://www.seekfind.net/The_Logical_Fall...px1yPkrIdU
Did you read it in a science book or heard it from a scientist?
Appeal to authority (argumentum ab auctoritate) – where an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it.

More evasion. You "do that" whenever you can't answer the question posed to you.
Actually you have the "argument from authority" all wrong, little boy.
A real scientist IS an authority on science, thus is a REAL authority on the subject. You don't even get what that fallacy means.
The "argumentum ad verecundiam" is a fallacy ONLY when the authority quoted is speaking outside their field. Scientists can speak with authority on science, child.

You are actually a hypocrite. If you were very ill, you would consult an "authority on medicine".

Buck up little boy. One of these days you'll come up with something valid.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-01-2016, 11:26 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2016 11:40 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:18 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Either way it is absolutely certain it did pass through the thought process for the knowledge to have reached me.

Out of curiosity ... what are you defining as "the thought process".

And, would this process be a constant?

(17-01-2016 10:57 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Did you presuppose the existence of reality before you became self aware?

I know that question was not addressed to me, but, yes ... don't we have to make that presupposition?

Or why else would get out of bed?

Consider
thought:
noun
1. an idea or opinion produced by thinking, or occurring suddenly in the mind.
2. the action or process of thinking.
https://www.google.tt/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=anac...ught+means

"why else would get out of bed?"
For the same reason someone that just got amnesia would get out of bed?

"reality existed before self awareness?"
Why would you be compelled to make that presupposition if it is the very thing you are trying to test for?
Science & Philosophy sometimes allows for presupposition but not if the presupposition is what you are trying to prove exists.
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17-01-2016, 11:27 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:19 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  .......
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?........

Sorry to take just one sentence out of the whole post BUT this is exactly what I am asking you.
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17-01-2016, 11:32 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:23 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:03 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The possibility exists it came from outside the subset of thoughts which was then added to the thought process.
It is also possible that it did not come from outside the subset of thoughts & only existed within the thought process.
Either way it is absolutely certain it did pass through the thought process for the knowledge to have reached me.

Blink

So, how do you work out the difference?

How do you tell if it came from outside the subset of thoughts. How might you know there is an 'Outside the subset of thoughts'.

Why have you now included the distinction "Outside the subset of thoughts' as in making thoughts a subset. Subset of what?

So.. how might the whole 'Roman' thing (All the mental baggage as in culture, history, architecture, notable personages, interactions with other cultures, lasting legacies) some how actually get into the thoughts in the first place?

How might you tell the difference that there might be an 'Outside of thoughts'?
All Reality = The Set (partially unknowable)
Thoughts = Subset of All Reality (knowable)

The "Roman thing" was never outside of the "subset of thought" in the first place. Therefore it did not need to get in.
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17-01-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:27 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:19 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  .......
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?........

Sorry to take just one sentence out of the whole post BUT this is exactly what I am asking you.
We can't
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17-01-2016, 11:33 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2016 11:38 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:18 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Out of curiosity ... what are you defining as "the thought process".

And, would this process be a constant?


I know that question was not addressed to me, but, yes ... don't we have to make that presupposition?

Or why else would we get out of bed?

Consider
thought:
noun
1. an idea or opinion produced by thinking, or occurring suddenly in the mind.
2. the action or process of thinking.
https://www.google.tt/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=anac...ught+means

"why else would we get out of bed?"
For the same reason someone that just got amnesia would get out of bed?

Errr, thanks but ...

I didn't ask for the definition of "thought", I asked how you define "the thought process"

Cheers.

ps, the amnesiac answer was goood. Liking that.

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17-01-2016, 11:36 PM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2016 11:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:32 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:23 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Blink

So, how do you work out the difference?

How do you tell if it came from outside the subset of thoughts. How might you know there is an 'Outside the subset of thoughts'.

Why have you now included the distinction "Outside the subset of thoughts' as in making thoughts a subset. Subset of what?

So.. how might the whole 'Roman' thing (All the mental baggage as in culture, history, architecture, notable personages, interactions with other cultures, lasting legacies) some how actually get into the thoughts in the first place?

How might you tell the difference that there might be an 'Outside of thoughts'?
All Reality = The Set (partially unknowable)
Thoughts = Subset of All Reality (knowable)

The "Roman thing" was never outside of the "subset of thought" in the first place. Therefore it did not need to get in.

You've totally changed the goal posts.

Quote:My honest answer to "Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?"
No. Without "my" thoughts "my" reality cannot exist.

The Roman thing was TOTALLY outside YOUR thoughts and reality BEFORE you learned it and became aware of it's true reality.

Was that supposed to be a "deepity" ? Without your thoughts your reality can't exist ?
Well "duh". No shit Sherlock.
Is this the kind of shit philosophers sit around and do ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-01-2016, 11:39 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:33 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:27 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 11:19 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  .......
How did you get around the problem of knowing what existed before you became self aware?........

Sorry to take just one sentence out of the whole post BUT this is exactly what I am asking you.
We can't

Consider

So... your views are kind of pointless then.

You can't know if it's true or false. You can't draw any conclusions from it. You can't actually do anything with it.

If you can't tell what is and is not your thoughts... aren't you kind of screwed?
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17-01-2016, 11:46 PM
RE: Does my reality exists regardless of how I perceive it?
(17-01-2016 11:32 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The "Roman thing" was never outside of the "subset of thought" in the first place. Therefore it did not need to get in.

Actually, no. From what I can gather, you are a basic solopsist. Reality only exists because you do. Making you a kind of god.

Did the Romans exist over 2000 years before you were born?

Let's see.

Temple of Marcus Agrippa.

[Image: Pantheon_6481.jpg]

Marcus' best mate, Augustus Caesar.

[Image: augustus.jpg]

Tiberius' hideaway at Capri.

[Image: Via-Del-Castiglione1.jpg]

Trajan's column.

[Image: img1_2048.jpg]


Hmmmm, did the Romans exist???

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Banjo.
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