Dogmatic Atheism?
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08-07-2017, 09:44 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:36 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:30 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  That is a false equivalency, my dear, and you should know that.

I can prove if I attempt to fly, I will crash to Earth. So obviously, that is not a choice.

No one can prove god exists or does not exist. So it is a choice.

No. There is no choice. There is NO EVIDENCE, and no coherent definition. If you have the ability to CHOOSE to believe in that for which there is no evidence, then you REMAIN a Evangelical. Apparently, you are less "well informed" than you assumed.

If you are agnostic about those things which cannot be disproved, then you are agnostic about the Pink Sparkly Unicorn.

I continue to contend, you choose to not believe because there is no evidence for such belief.

A lack of evidence is simply a lack of evidence. It does not prove something, and thus a rational person CHOOSES to not believe because of lack of evidence.
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08-07-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:27 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  But, as I have discovered, most atheists are more accurately agnostic atheists which is to say they do not believe in god, they live their lives as though there is no god, but they cannot prove there is no god.

Really ? You have polling data ?
I must have thrown mine away when it came in the mail.
An atheist (a "full fledged, 100 % all in atheist) has to prove nothing.
An atheist simply lacks one thing.

You remain an Evangelical.

No dear. I no longer believe in God.

And yes, it is always dangerous when some asserts "Most" anything. So no, I have no poll.

Would SOME atheists better suit you?
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08-07-2017, 09:48 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
Ugh. I see you've retained the fundie obsession with purity and heresy.

There are about a million threads here already on shades of atheism and agnosticism. Maybe reading a few of them would be beneficial.
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08-07-2017, 09:49 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:44 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:36 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. There is no choice. There is NO EVIDENCE, and no coherent definition. If you have the ability to CHOOSE to believe in that for which there is no evidence, then you REMAIN a Evangelical. Apparently, you are less "well informed" than you assumed.

If you are agnostic about those things which cannot be disproved, then you are agnostic about the Pink Sparkly Unicorn.

I continue to contend, you choose to not believe because there is no evidence for such belief.

A lack of evidence is simply a lack of evidence. It does not prove something, and thus a rational person CHOOSES to not believe because of lack of evidence.

Nope. Your Evangelism infects your brain.
Rational people do not have a choice in accepting reality, only schizophrenics do, (well maybe they don't either).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-07-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:46 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Really ? You have polling data ?
I must have thrown mine away when it came in the mail.
An atheist (a "full fledged, 100 % all in atheist) has to prove nothing.
An atheist simply lacks one thing.

You remain an Evangelical.

No dear. I no longer believe in God.

And yes, it is always dangerous when some asserts "Most" anything. So no, I have no poll.

Would SOME atheists better suit you?

No sweetie. "The few I happen to know" would suit me.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-07-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:37 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  ...my advice to atheists how we should conduct ourselves...

And why should we give a shit how you think we should conduct ourselves. Hmmm, Sweetums, why?

Dear, have you figured out the mysterious ways of the atheist? Were you somehow divinely inspired? Please do enlighten us Snookums.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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08-07-2017, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 11:28 AM by Aliza.)
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:40 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's pretty hilarious, the OP is about dogmatism, and look who's being dogmatic.
Laugh out load

Explain please. How am I being dogmatic by urging open minded honesty?

I guess even that is dogmatic.

Okay. Hmmm…

I’ll just come right out with it. You reek of Christianity. You reek so badly that you might as well be wearing a suit of rotten onions. Even if you have broken away from the religion, the culture seems to be acting as your core operating system, and that isn't exactly a flattering thing.

Fundie Christians have the unfortunate tendency to only be capable of viewing the world through Christian lenses. This is likely because they stick together, demonize “everyone else” and refuse to acknowledge others as also living valid, happy lives.

Because their culture is so enclosed, they never even consider that other people may not view the world in the same way they do. Other people have totally different values, they process information differently, and they regard others with more respect, tolerance and understanding. Basically, most Fundie Christians are fucking morons. They have a behavior pattern that is predictable and consistent. It’s condescending, arrogant, self-assured and it lacks the ability to redefine itself as human culture evolves. It's yucky and it sticks out like a sore thumb to everyone else.

But Fundies are not the same as liberal, and/or secularized Christians. You don’t need to stir the pot with people who are minding their own business and living life with the comfortable confidence that they’re going to heaven because Jesus died for their sins. The Fundie mindset says “that’s not good enough. They need to be passionate and believe! They need to be warriors for Jesus!” -Or whatever idiotic mantra the Fundies are repeating to themselves these days.

I hate to say it, but you, sir or madam, stink of Christianity. You’re not a warrior for atheism now. Take a step back, do more absorbing and self-reflection than "spreading the word."

Don’t worry about what people believe. None of it matters. Worry about what they do and how they live their lives. Worry about improving the world through real, meaningful action. Tell your Christian friends that prayer is nice, but suggest that maybe they shouldn’t put all their eggs in one basket. Encourage your Christian friends to examine the financials of the church they give their money to, and evaluate impartially how the money is really being spent. Suggest that a church that isn’t open with their financials to their members is probably hiding something. Remind your Christian friends that the world is rapidly changing and ask them how their religion is helping or hurting their community from being successful in this changing world.

It sounds like you’re pretty new at independent, rational thinking. I recommend you stick to planting seeds for right now rather than running onto the Christian battlefield, hollering “Leeroy Jenkins!” at the top of your lungs.

Edit: I called you "sir" but I don't know your gender. That was bad form on my part.
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08-07-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 10:55 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 09:40 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  Explain please. How am I being dogmatic by urging open minded honesty?

I guess even that is dogmatic.

Okay. Hmmm…

I’ll just come right out with it. You reek of Christianity. You reek so badly that you might as well be wearing a suit of rotten onions. Even if you have broken away from the religion, the culture seems to be acting as your core operating system, and that isn't exactly a flattering thing.

Fundie Christians have the unfortunate tendency to only be capable of viewing the world through Christian lenses. This is likely because they stick together, demonize “everyone else” and refuse to acknowledge others as also living valid, happy lives.

Because their culture is so enclosed, they never even consider that other people may not view the world in the same way they do. Other people have totally different values, they process information differently, and they regard others with more respect, tolerance and understanding. Basically, most Fundie Christians are fucking morons. They have a behavior pattern that is predictable and consistent. It’s condescending, arrogant, self-assured and it lacks the ability to redefine itself as human culture evolves. It's yucky and it sticks out like a sore thumb to everyone else.

But Fundies are not the same as liberal, and/or secularized Christians. You don’t need to stir the pot with people who are minding their own business and living life with the comfortable confidence that they’re going to heaven because Jesus died for their sins. The Fundie mindset says “that’s not good enough. They need to be passionate and believe! They need to be warriors for Jesus!” -Or whatever idiotic mantra the Fundies are repeating to themselves these days.

I hate to say it, but you, sir, stink of Christianity. You’re not a warrior for atheism now. Take a step back, do more absorbing and self-reflection than "spreading the word."

Don’t worry about what people believe. None of it matters. Worry about what they do and how they live their lives. Worry about improving the world through real, meaningful action. Tell your Christian friends that prayer is nice, but suggest that maybe they shouldn’t put all their eggs in one basket. Encourage your Christian friends to examine the financials of the church they give their money to, and evaluate impartially how the money is really being spent. Suggest that a church that isn’t open with their financials to their members is probably hiding something. Remind your Christian friends that the world is rapidly changing and ask them how their religion is helping or hurting their community from being successful in this changing world.

It sounds like you’re pretty new at independent, rational thinking. I recommend you stick to planting seeds for right now rather than running onto the Christian battlefield, hollering “Leeroy Jenkins!” at the top of your lungs.

Even though your comments are harsh and to the point, I understand them and appreciate them.

Let me just say to you that unless you have experienced insidious brainwashing all your life, you cannot fully appreciate how difficult it is to let go of certain constructs in thinking.

I deserve harsh backlash in comments, I suppose. But I would prefer constructive criticism without personal invective.

THIS post is constructive criticism. Thank you.
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08-07-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
I have never understood the "choice" in belief.

I couldn't believe if my life depended on it. I recognized the bible as a book of fairy tales when I was 10. After that, I moved on. I didn't label myself as atheist until many decades later.

There are lots of people going through life without believing in any gods who don't ever label themselves. There is no dogma, there are no rules. And I see no way one can believe what one knows to be BS.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-07-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:06 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 10:55 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Okay. Hmmm…

I’ll just come right out with it. You reek of Christianity. You reek so badly that you might as well be wearing a suit of rotten onions. Even if you have broken away from the religion, the culture seems to be acting as your core operating system, and that isn't exactly a flattering thing.

Fundie Christians have the unfortunate tendency to only be capable of viewing the world through Christian lenses. This is likely because they stick together, demonize “everyone else” and refuse to acknowledge others as also living valid, happy lives.

Because their culture is so enclosed, they never even consider that other people may not view the world in the same way they do. Other people have totally different values, they process information differently, and they regard others with more respect, tolerance and understanding. Basically, most Fundie Christians are fucking morons. They have a behavior pattern that is predictable and consistent. It’s condescending, arrogant, self-assured and it lacks the ability to redefine itself as human culture evolves. It's yucky and it sticks out like a sore thumb to everyone else.

But Fundies are not the same as liberal, and/or secularized Christians. You don’t need to stir the pot with people who are minding their own business and living life with the comfortable confidence that they’re going to heaven because Jesus died for their sins. The Fundie mindset says “that’s not good enough. They need to be passionate and believe! They need to be warriors for Jesus!” -Or whatever idiotic mantra the Fundies are repeating to themselves these days.

I hate to say it, but you, sir, stink of Christianity. You’re not a warrior for atheism now. Take a step back, do more absorbing and self-reflection than "spreading the word."

Don’t worry about what people believe. None of it matters. Worry about what they do and how they live their lives. Worry about improving the world through real, meaningful action. Tell your Christian friends that prayer is nice, but suggest that maybe they shouldn’t put all their eggs in one basket. Encourage your Christian friends to examine the financials of the church they give their money to, and evaluate impartially how the money is really being spent. Suggest that a church that isn’t open with their financials to their members is probably hiding something. Remind your Christian friends that the world is rapidly changing and ask them how their religion is helping or hurting their community from being successful in this changing world.

It sounds like you’re pretty new at independent, rational thinking. I recommend you stick to planting seeds for right now rather than running onto the Christian battlefield, hollering “Leeroy Jenkins!” at the top of your lungs.

Even though your comments are harsh and to the point, I understand them and appreciate them.

Let me just say to you that unless you have experienced insidious brainwashing all your life, you cannot fully appreciate how difficult it is to let go of certain constructs in thinking.

I deserve harsh backlash in comments, I suppose. But I would prefer constructive criticism without personal invective.

THIS post is constructive criticism. Thank you.

I know it was harsh, and I sincerely apologize if it hurt your feelings more than I intended (I'll admit that I did mean to sting a little.) You didn't seem to be picking the point up from previous posts, both from me and other posters here.

I've never been a part of a brainwashing religion. I've seen it second-hand, I've seen it unfold in others and I've seen the damage play out, but I've never experienced it first hand. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to break out of this way of thinking. But I think one of the early steps in breaking the cycle is to recognize how deep the rabbit hole goes. How has this damaging way of thinking infiltrated your core personality? In what way has it set the baseline for things and defined norms for you that aren't normal at all?

FYI: Just so you understand who you're talking to here, I'm not an atheist. I'm a Jew. I really like the atheists, and on many matters I can relate to them, but I've come to a different conclusion on the subject of a deity.
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