Dogmatic Atheism?
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08-07-2017, 11:21 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 11:06 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  Even though your comments are harsh and to the point, I understand them and appreciate them.

Let me just say to you that unless you have experienced insidious brainwashing all your life, you cannot fully appreciate how difficult it is to let go of certain constructs in thinking.

I deserve harsh backlash in comments, I suppose. But I would prefer constructive criticism without personal invective.

THIS post is constructive criticism. Thank you.

I know it was harsh, and I sincerely apologize if it hurt your feelings more than I intended (I'll admit that I did mean to sting a little.) You didn't seem to be picking the point up from previous posts, both from me and other posters here.

I've never been a part of a brainwashing religion. I've seen it second-hand, I've seen it unfold in others and I've seen the damage play out, but I've never experienced it first hand. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to break out of this way of thinking. But I think one of the early steps in breaking the cycle is to recognize how deep the rabbit hole goes. How has this damaging way of thinking infiltrated your core personality? In what way has it set the baseline for things and defined norms for you that aren't normal at all?

FYI: Just so you understand who you're talking to here, I'm not an atheist. I'm a Jew. I really like the atheists, and on many matters I can relate to them, but I've come to a different conclusion on the subject of a deity.

Aliza:

It is YOUR posts I had hoped to be getting here on this forum.

If I say something someone disagrees with and they critique me, that's fine. I appreciate critiques.

When someone is just plain nasty and insults me for the sake of insulting me rather than expressing their views, that is unfortunate. As I learn who these people are, I will start ignoring them and not responding to them. It is a waste of my time.

Thanks Aliza.
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08-07-2017, 11:25 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:21 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  When someone is just plain nasty and insults me for the sake of insulting me rather than expressing their views, that is unfortunate. As I learn who these people are, I will start ignoring them and not responding to them. It is a waste of my time.

And when someone is condescending and play hurt dove afterwards, when called on it that's unfortunate too?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:21 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 11:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I know it was harsh, and I sincerely apologize if it hurt your feelings more than I intended (I'll admit that I did mean to sting a little.) You didn't seem to be picking the point up from previous posts, both from me and other posters here.

I've never been a part of a brainwashing religion. I've seen it second-hand, I've seen it unfold in others and I've seen the damage play out, but I've never experienced it first hand. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to break out of this way of thinking. But I think one of the early steps in breaking the cycle is to recognize how deep the rabbit hole goes. How has this damaging way of thinking infiltrated your core personality? In what way has it set the baseline for things and defined norms for you that aren't normal at all?

FYI: Just so you understand who you're talking to here, I'm not an atheist. I'm a Jew. I really like the atheists, and on many matters I can relate to them, but I've come to a different conclusion on the subject of a deity.

Aliza:

It is YOUR posts I had hoped to be getting here on this forum.

If I say something someone disagrees with and they critique me, that's fine. I appreciate critiques.

When someone is just plain nasty and insults me for the sake of insulting me rather than expressing their views, that is unfortunate. As I learn who these people are, I will start ignoring them and not responding to them. It is a waste of my time.

Thanks Aliza.

I'm.... honestly not sure how to take that. I can be dense at times.
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08-07-2017, 11:27 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:26 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 11:21 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  Aliza:

It is YOUR posts I had hoped to be getting here on this forum.

If I say something someone disagrees with and they critique me, that's fine. I appreciate critiques.

When someone is just plain nasty and insults me for the sake of insulting me rather than expressing their views, that is unfortunate. As I learn who these people are, I will start ignoring them and not responding to them. It is a waste of my time.

Thanks Aliza.

I'm.... honestly not sure how to take that. I can be dense at times.

It was meant as an expression of sincere appreciation to you.
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08-07-2017, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 11:40 AM by unsapien.)
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 09:13 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  I like to contemplate the non-existence of one god per day, so it takes me about a decade to get through all of them, if I take a vacation now and then. (On Leap Day, I think about the possibility that all 3000+ gods actually do exist, which might account for the chaotic nature of the world.) Today is my day to contemplate the existence of Chhinnamasta who, according to myth: "Is the nude self-decapitated goddess, usually standing or seated on a divine copulating couple, holds her own severed head in one hand, a scimitar in another. Three jets of blood spurt out of her bleeding neck and are drunk by her severed head and two attendants." While I have seen no shred of evidence that this goddess exists, she has as much probability of existence as your Christian god. Not to mention that she is a bit more interesting. Angel

Trust me she exists...I went to college with her Tongue

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"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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08-07-2017, 11:29 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 11:43 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:26 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 11:21 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  Aliza:

It is YOUR posts I had hoped to be getting here on this forum.

If I say something someone disagrees with and they critique me, that's fine. I appreciate critiques.

When someone is just plain nasty and insults me for the sake of insulting me rather than expressing their views, that is unfortunate. As I learn who these people are, I will start ignoring them and not responding to them. It is a waste of my time.

Thanks Aliza.

I'm.... honestly not sure how to take that. I can be dense at times.

He means me but apparently he lack balls to say it and prefer to hide behind "someone". I didn't insulted him for sake of insulting him though. What would be the point?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  Yes, I am a former Evangelical Christian. Yes, I am now a full fledged atheist.


Okay.

(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  And a well informed atheist I might add.

That remains to be seen.

(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  I fully understand the word atheist means a person who is not a theist, a person who does not believe in a deity or deities.

Yes, but it is important to note that the definition stops there as well. Being an atheist means you answer one question with a negative. "Do you believe in a god/gods?" If your answer is "No" then you are an atheist.

But the definition stops there.

You can be open-minded or closed minded.
You can be politically liberal or conservative.
You can accept science or deny science.

Atheism only applies to one answer and one question.

(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  I have CHOSEN to stop believing in God because there is no evidence of such a being.

You do not choose your beliefs. You become convinced of the truth of your beliefs. You can believe things for good reasons, bad reasons or even no reason, but you do not choose consciously.

Since you didn't like the "choose to fly" counter-argument (which, BTW, is not a false equivalency...) I'll go with a different one.

Choose to believe in god again. Maintain this sincere belief, by choice, for 24 hours. Then choose to return to your atheism.

(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  But atheists need to be careful we do not fall into the same trap as dogmatic believers.

So.... you discard evangelism and come here and preach to us about being good atheists. Dafuq?

(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  There is no proof God exists and it is a honest response to live one's life accordingly.

Yes, I seem to remember that idea being mentioned before.

(08-07-2017 08:51 AM)slw0606 Wrote:  But it is not being intellectually honest to say, definitively, God does not exist.

Did someone here make that claim?

Seriously: Stop preaching.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-07-2017, 11:39 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
When I was an atheist, I remember trying to talk my religious friends out of their beliefs. When I was a Christian, I tried pursuading my friends who are atheists, away from their lack of belief. Now, during these past months, I follow no religion but believe in God, but just live and let live. In most religions, there is this disclaimer to go out and get others "into the fold." So much so that a religious person may become wrapped up in his/her ego, instead of their message. And I've seen that from atheists as well as theists. Unless someone is in my face or in politics trying to push their religious agenda, I just hold a live and let live position at this point. Being dogmatic about anything never really works.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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08-07-2017, 11:42 AM
RE: Dogmatic Atheism?
(08-07-2017 11:39 AM)Deidre32 Wrote:  When I was an atheist, I remember trying to talk my religious friends out of their beliefs. When I was a Christian, I tried pursuading my friends who are atheists, away from their lack of belief. Now, during these past months, I follow no religion but believe in God, but just live and let live. In most religions, there is this disclaimer to go out and get others "into the fold." So much so that a religious person may become wrapped up in his/her ego, instead of their message. And I've seen that from atheists as well as theists. Unless someone is in my face or in politics trying to push their religious agenda, I just hold a live and let live position at this point. Being dogmatic about anything never really works.

Excellent comment!!
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08-07-2017, 12:23 PM
Dogmatic Atheism?
God doesn't exist because gods have never been shown to be possible. So it's as appropriate to say "god doesn't exist" as it is to say that "magical unicorns don't exist."

It's not being dogmatic to be confident if your confidence is well-grounded in reality, evidence, logic, and reason


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TheBeardedDude

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-Rick
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