Dominionism
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22-09-2011, 03:02 PM
Dominionism
I was listening to a Point of Inquiry podcast today (Click herer to listen......it's about 45 minutes long) about dominionism, and it chilled me to the bone. I have never heard of this movement, but apparantly it's an active extreme right wing christian movement to establish a christian theocratic government. I'm not new to the fact that many christians would love a theocracy, but I had no idea that this was an active and organized movement with popular leaders, Michelle Bachmann and Rick Perry most notably...and not surprisingly. The fact that these politics are regarded as serious contendors for high up government positions have me wondering which country I should threaten to emigrate to should they actually get elected. Sad The possibly good thing, for me personally, is this only motivates me to actually become an atheist activist instead of an armchair atheist. We have to make our voices louder. Or something...

Have any of you heard of this movement? It's becoming more mainstream in American politics, and I'm terrified that it will actually gain some serious footing and be taken seriously by right wing voters. Here is a Daily Beast article about it.

Thoughts? Comments? What have you heard about this group, and the likelihood that they will actually gain power in our government.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

- Carl Sagan
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22-09-2011, 06:01 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2011 06:08 PM by Ghost.)
RE: Dominionism
Hey, Zaika.

There's all kinds of right wing groups in America. The various militias. White Supremacists who want to launch a RaHoWa. But how worried should we be about the fringe?

To accomplish a feat as radical as either making the US a theocracy or, say, separating the so called "Red States", you need a pretty major catalyst. In Quebec there is a very serious, very organised nationalist separatist movement that has formed government several times. But with no catalyst of sufficient gravity, they can't get enough traction.

So I'm sure Dominionism exists and I'm sure they have supporters and even financial backing, I just question if the threat of their takeover is legitimate, or just another manufactured scare like homosexuals will destroy marriage or Bush will turn the US into a fascist dictatorship or illegal aliens will take our jobs.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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22-09-2011, 06:44 PM
RE: Dominionism
I'm more worried about my job being outsourced then I am about an illegal alien taking it. And, what are the odds that an illegal alien will have a law degree and an MBA? I'm thinking not good so I think I'm safe.

As for the rest of this, I think there is a slight difference between a fringe group and what is being discussed here. Bachmann has no chance of winning a national election but Perry could be the next President of the United States. If the thought of that wingnut in the most powerful office in the world doesn't scare the poop out of you, I don't know what will.

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22-09-2011, 09:42 PM
RE: Dominionism
Hey Matt,

I have to say that this group is not fringe...that is what's frightening about these things I'm hearing and reading. The people who espouse this crazy are people who are serious contenders for a high political office.

BnW,

This is what I'm afraid of....

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

- Carl Sagan
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22-09-2011, 09:49 PM
RE: Dominionism
(22-09-2011 06:01 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Zaika.

There's all kinds of right wing groups in America. The various militias. White Supremacists who want to launch a RaHoWa. But how worried should we be about the fringe?

To accomplish a feat as radical as either making the US a theocracy or, say, separating the so called "Red States", you need a pretty major catalyst. In Quebec there is a very serious, very organised nationalist separatist movement that has formed government several times. But with no catalyst of sufficient gravity, they can't get enough traction.

So I'm sure Dominionism exists and I'm sure they have supporters and even financial backing, I just question if the threat of their takeover is legitimate, or just another manufactured scare like homosexuals will destroy marriage or Bush will turn the US into a fascist dictatorship or illegal aliens will take our jobs.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

I agree. People give way too much mouthtime to radical lunatics. People like this will never have any real power in this country or any other Western nation. Our government is set up specifically to push back hard against radical groups and make it nigh-on impossible for them to accomplish anything.

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23-09-2011, 07:20 AM
RE: Dominionism
Hey, Zaika.

The party is fringe. There is no mainstream movement to turn the US into a theocracy. The Parti Québécois is way more mainstream than the Dominionists will ever be and they've formed several governments and forced two national referendums on separating Quebec. But they can't get enough traction to accomplish their goal and their goal is legal. Turning the US into a theocracy would require a coup d’état because the US constitution expressly forbids it. I think that the US Army might have an issue with a coup d’état. So even if Perry gets elected (assuming that the reports that he's a Dominionist are even reliable, which I doubt seriously because he's under the microscope right now and only fringe reporters are talking about it, so I imagine it’s about as reliable as saying, “he’s in the Illuminati!”) the odds of him ever being able to actually accomplish this feat are slim to none. So at best, like the Tea Party, the Dominionist movement is just about fomenting fear and then catering to a manufactured voting block than it is about a serious threat to the separation of church and state in the United States. Either that or it’s a manoeuvre from the left… (lol, there’s no left in the US)… from the Democrats to make people like you frightened so you’ll get radicalised against the right because right now, the Republican/Democrat fight is between radicals and moderates and it’s hard as hell to mobilise moderates.

Hey, BnW.

Don't get me wrong. I'd vomit if Perry got elected... or any Republican in their current far-right incarnation for that matter. But he can no more turn the US into a theocracy than he can ban free speech or mothball all American news outlets. It's just not going to happen.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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23-09-2011, 08:27 AM
RE: Dominionism
(22-09-2011 09:49 PM)17thknight Wrote:  People like this will never have any real power in this country or any other Western nation. Our government is set up specifically to push back hard against radical groups and make it nigh-on impossible for them to accomplish anything.

Your government was also meant to protect individual rights and freedoms, which have mostly been stripped away for "security". And, even if fringe lunatics didn't get elected to public office (which they do! frequently, or Bachman and Perry wouldn't be in contention for president), they can exert influence through intimidation, media attacks and dirty electioneering on the mainstream types who do get elected.
Push back is only as strong as the Supreme Court... and look what it's been doing to the constitution lately.
Maybe an outright theocracy is not imminent, but its back-room political power has already done a good deal of damage and will certainly do more.

(Ps Should this be in Politics?)

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23-09-2011, 08:54 AM
RE: Dominionism
(23-09-2011 08:27 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  (Ps Should this be in Politics?)

I wondered...but I wasn't sure...since it was a theological thing too?? Can it be moved?

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

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23-09-2011, 11:19 AM
RE: Dominionism
(23-09-2011 08:27 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Your government was also meant to protect individual rights and freedoms, which have mostly been stripped away for "security". And, even if fringe lunatics didn't get elected to public office (which they do! frequently, or Bachman and Perry wouldn't be in contention for president), they can exert influence through intimidation, media attacks and dirty electioneering on the mainstream types who do get elected.
Push back is only as strong as the Supreme Court... and look what it's been doing to the constitution lately.
Maybe an outright theocracy is not imminent, but its back-room political power has already done a good deal of damage and will certainly do more.

(Ps Should this be in Politics?)
You fail to recognize fully how our system works. Even having 1 lunatic in power does nothing. You could elect a lunatic president and it would still be absurdly difficult for them to have any real sway on matters.

People place FAR too much emphasis on things like the Presidency. Federalist Paper No. 10 lays out a fairly clear set of reasons why our government pushes back against factionalism within the country (small factions, that is, like radical groups).

They can be loud, they can be obnoxious, and they can even get a representative elected, but they are ultimately drowned by everyone else. You're far too reactionary and fearful of things that simply don't occur.

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23-09-2011, 11:28 AM
RE: Dominionism
Dominionism is a heresy. Jesus commanded his followers to preach the gospel so that people could have their sins forgiven, not to seek political power. The decision to follow Jesus is something that a person must do voluntarily and it cannot be coerced.

The results of dominionism can be seen in what happened when Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire. Many people professed to be Christians because of the material benefits they could receive and the church became filled with members who weren't really believers. Many of them brought their pagan beliefs into the church and simply applied Christian labels to them.

Being a Christian doesn't cancel a person's citizenship in his country. Paul was a Roman citizen and used his rights to help in his quest to spread the gospel. But the goal of a Christian's involvement in government should be to ensure that the government functions effectively in its godgiven role of suppressing evil behavior so that its citizens can live in peace. Government power should be used to make sure that Christians have the freedom to live for God but it should never be used to force anyone to become a Christian.

The Bible reveals that some day Christ will return and establish his kingdom over the world but until then Christians are forbidden to try to bring about a theocracy.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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